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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 28, 2006 - 12:15pm PT
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Pine tar? And we all think 'long ago' was so pure!
I can see it now, the "Great Roof' pitch reduced to 5.7 PT with gobs of synthetic pine tar. One poor soul was rescued when she couldn't extract her fingers from the crack. She wasn't hurt: her feet were stuck too.
A lively debate ensued regarding the relative strength of the pine tar versus the climber's weight, resulting in PT.1, PT.2, PT.3 etc, all the way up to Largo's fighting weight, at PT.7.
Buzz
PS: I am just supersensitive Goatboy, since I was an old school bolter but could never get into lycra.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Nov 28, 2006 - 12:21pm PT
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Roger,
I am sure it was a little dicey whenever he stepped on anything but clean rock. Sport climbing to me means the era of rap bolting. Lead bolting is traditional in a sense.
Ken
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goatboy smellz
climber
boulder county
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Nov 28, 2006 - 12:23pm PT
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Golly,
Glad you boys had the nuts to figured it out.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 28, 2006 - 12:34pm PT
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Here's a 1/4" Star Dryvin with SMC hanger, dating from the first ascent of Triassic Sands in 1972 (pitch 4). Looks a little rusty. Replaced by Greg Barnes in 2006.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Nov 28, 2006 - 12:47pm PT
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The rock in that spot (clean cut tan rock in Red Rocks) was pretty darn soft - I hand-drilled a 1/2" x 3" bolt (through the remaining lead sleeve fragments) in only 8-10 minutes! The lead sleeve fragments come out as little rounded chunks. Con from YMS lead for that replacement.
Don't try it with 3/8" Star-Dryvin and a 3/8" hand drill though - drill bit gets stuck in the lead. If you deal with those, Bruce Hildenbrand uses a great trick of a lag screw to pull the sleeve (Pinnacles has a lot of those and so Bruce is the expert!)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 28, 2006 - 01:11pm PT
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Here's a sampling of the progression of rap/belay anchors that were replaced during our anchor replacement project. These don't include some fairly amazing and bad homemade jobs that, along with examples of all of these, were left in place for history's sake. All these anchors were replaced with heavy Metolius Rap hangers.
And a note on old 1/4" bolts: all of the '80-'90s era 1/2" bolt were in the worst shape of all the ones replaced and you could cut dozens of them in minutes with one saw blade when they spun and wouldn't pull. By contrast, a couple of 1/4" bolts destroyed two blades that didn't even nick them in the process. Have no idea what they were made of, but despite appearances they are still there and way better than much of the stuff put in decades later.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 28, 2006 - 01:23pm PT
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Those old style--a relative phrase for sure--hangers at the top of your picture reminded me that there was a period when the newer stlye carabiner gates, with their beefed up keepers, would not go through the small holes on the older hangers. Everyone kept a few of the old 'oval' biners around for carabiner rappel brakes and they would fit into those old hangers.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Nov 28, 2006 - 01:26pm PT
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Somebody asked about the speeds of drilling.......
In the 70's we used steel Rawl drill bits that seemed to drill well for about 3 holes before needing resharpening. Nowadays, the carbide-tipped drill bits drill way better, way faster and stay sharp for a long, long time.
I find that I can hand drill a 3/8 x 2.25" hole in Tuolumne Meadows granite in about 10 minutes with a carbide-tipped bit. Back in the 70's a 1/4" x 1.25" hole with a fresh Rawl bit took me about 10-15 minutes.
Bruce
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 28, 2006 - 01:36pm PT
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That's pretty impressive, Bruce. Five times the rock moved at the same or faster times. I think it took me about 10-15 minutes to drill a 1/4 inch hole with my double fluted bits.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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I'm slow, but the carbide tip bits are really great. Eric dresses the tips and seems to get a better chisel effect.
I've also noticed that when I'm sketched out I drill a lot better... until I go to the other limit when I'm resetting feet all the time... then it takes a long time, tap-tap-tap-shuffle-shuffle-shuffle-tap-tap-tap etc...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 28, 2006 - 01:52pm PT
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These have been posted before, but this seems like a good place to revisit them. From North Quarter Dome, June/06. The first one had the initials YC stamped on the homemade aluminum hanger. Replacement bolts courtesy of ASCA.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 28, 2006 - 02:08pm PT
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We had some of those square aluminum homemade jobs as well that somehow didn't make it into the photo. Some of the anchors left were put in by Caldwell and Schmitz. Dean still remembered which ones he drilled and which were Kim's on looking at photos of the various anchors, several of which had at least one of those square aluminum jobs.
Note: I'd be remiss if I failed to thank Theron Moses for making the tuning forks used on the project.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Nov 28, 2006 - 02:13pm PT
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Anyone out there have a source for the "tuning fork" so lovingly described above?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 28, 2006 - 02:19pm PT
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Here's a new, thick bolt (courtesy of Lord Slime) that snapped off easily on a limestone seacliff at Cayman Brac. Only titanium glue-ins seem to be safe there; stainless and other steel bolts often break under body weight or less, resulting in a few near disasters. See http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/deepbluesea.htm
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Nov 28, 2006 - 02:21pm PT
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Roger,
it ain't me, it's the bits. Those carbide tipped bits drill so much faster than the old steel ones it's amazing. Takes me about 10 minutes to drill a 3/8" x 2.25" hole in Boulder Canyon, CO granite as well.
People think that hand-drilling is old school but, when you factor in the weight of the Bosch (where you can legally use it) and how quickly you can hand drill with carbide-tipped bits sometimes it makes way more sense to hand drill.
Bruce
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 28, 2006 - 03:58pm PT
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Some old bolts pulled from the Titan four years ago.
Chris McNamara, John Burns and Mike umm, I forget now... At the base. One bolt at least (the one with 3 holes, nestled between the giant modern ones) is an original handmade Layton Kor hanger.
EDIT: That should be Chris McNamara, Mike White and John Evans. Thanks Brian.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Nov 28, 2006 - 04:06pm PT
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slobmonster, we sell tuning forks milled from #3 LAs for $10 including shipping, just send a check to:
ASCA
PO Box 1814
Bishop, CA 93515
The ones we have are only for 1/4" bolts, if you try to use them on 5/16" buttonheads they bend & break right away.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Nov 28, 2006 - 04:11pm PT
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crunch, that's Mike White from Salt Lake, he's done lots of Utah rebolting (also lots in Red Rocks).
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Nov 28, 2006 - 04:12pm PT
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Mike White (right of Chris) and isn't that John Evans? Dunno.
Mike for sure, though.
Kor hangers, pretty cool. Shot of him in Beyond the Vertical with a hacksaw blade and that strap of bent angle iron.
-Brian in SLC
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ec
climber
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Nov 28, 2006 - 07:51pm PT
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Man, those old bolts are amazing!!
Here's a few choice anchors of old I dug up:
3/8" X 2" StarDryvin w/Leeper Hanger from Pinnacles NM, CA:
3/8" X 2.25" Wedge-type bolt (from hardware store) w/HME Hanger from Sequoia National Park. The scary thing about this type of bolt I found on this route was that they were all loose and this one was literally HAND PLUCKED from its placement! This is the current design of the Fixe Studs. 'Makes me wonder...
3/8" X ??" Carriage Bolt (from hardware store) w/ Homemade Aluminum Hanger from Pinnacles NM:
.25" X 1" RAWL Stud w/(I believe a) LongWare Hanger from the Sierra. Notice that the bolt is not hardly compressed and the split is very visible. This indicates that an oversized drill was most likely used. This hanger has one of the best workmanship of any of the old 'homemade' hangers that I've ever seen:
.25" X 1.25" (??) StarDryvin w/a Layton Kor Hanger from the Kingfisher Tower, Fisher Towers, UT:
Bring Your Own Bolt (BYOB). This was made by David Hickey for the more sensitive areas to bolting and for the backcountry climber. It works off of the same design as a bicycle headset. The parts are a Metolius Stainless Hanger welded to 3/8" diameter X 2 or 3" long stainless tubing that has a downward flare to the central hole through the tube. A stainless bolt runs through the center and on the end is a off-set nut/wedge. Several were made and used on a few routes and top-rope areas. The problem with using them is subsequent parties had a difficult time finding the f##cking holes! Besides having to drill the hole, these were extremely fast to use and remove. If you could find the holes, it was like having a new bolt evry time. Climbing Mag tested this one, that's why it is totally tweaked. Shear and pull-out strength was indicated to be in excess of 7800lbs!
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