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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 24, 2006 - 06:49pm PT
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Wow!
andanother tempest in a teapot.
Once again I regret if my discussion of a pertinent topic intruded on their grief if indeed as the OP suggests it did.
Seems more like a couple of whiners need to feel better about themselves. Can't see why GC is bent out of shape for disclosing a (cavalier) email when he hides behind a nom de plume.
Yeah. I signed onto rc.com as Dangle to smoke out a deceitful poster with a vested interest...
Why does that seem so familiar?
So who are these pilots who are pleased to have you volunteer them GC?
If you had a pair you would have bothered to invite me to debate the issues.
You guys want to come out from the curtain yourselves, or just remain pusillanimous poseurs?
Well?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 24, 2006 - 06:51pm PT
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Graniteclimber
Why should I make up my own nonsense about evolution or God/religion? I'll just copy paste since the snippets are already presented perfectly. But that is beside the point. Id don't remember anywhere ever you being on "my so called sh#t list". I don't have a sh#t list. And it's a useless list to have if people make one.
I don't have one and don't even remember or recall your reference to the evolution thread or whatever.
You have presented your defense in a very acceptable manner that requires me to apologise to you for my rant/outburst against you. Not because I'm trying to save face. I have an egg in the face now.
As for cutting me slack or respecting me because I'm on YOSAR or I'm a so called big name guy should not be a factor that you need to consider. I truly believe I'm not above anyone here. We are all human, and subjected to making mistakes.
I sincerely apologize to you granitclimber for my posts that made you feel very uncomfortable and hurt.
Werner
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 24, 2006 - 06:51pm PT
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Cross posted.
Thanks Joe.
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ADK
climber
truckee
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Nov 24, 2006 - 07:06pm PT
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drop it guys. Youre making the situation worse by starting this thread. Ron apologized. Accept it and move on.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Nov 24, 2006 - 09:12pm PT
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You know what's funny, Lois?
The first time I summited Half Dome, we had to do it early because trail crews were working on reconditioning the approach. See, you get onto this saddle that's easy enough, and then you trudge up some in-cut steps on a second "rock saddle." I remember the big joke with my compatriots was how "natural" the experience was. Then you get to the real business of the climb, which is the cables. There's a big hole in the rock with piles and piles of gloves to help you get up and down, even (supplied by the hikers, not NPS). Why they didn't just take it one step further and make little stair cuts for Half Dome itself is beyond me. And guard rails. They ought to have guard rails on the lip.
I always thought it would be fun on a really popular day to get out a light trad rack and my rock shoes and simul up that crack on the side of it to freakout the gapers. :)
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Nov 24, 2006 - 11:22pm PT
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"Concerning the type of trail enhancements you mention, I have been on many such trails where the NP cut in steps, put up metal rails and other such accouterments to assist hikers to get one or another place. I have benefitted from these "adaptations" and I was glad they were there because otherwise I could not have gotten to many of these places."
Ahh, so have I. My point is - the weird part about the half dome trail is that they DID cut steps up, until you get to the serious part. Then it's just wood slats and elevated chains.
"My point is whether folks are being mislead into thinking that this particular hike is just an ordinary NP hike which might be classed "strenuous" but nothing more remarkable. I can't help but wonder if Ms Sandal simply thought she was taking a "strenuous" but otherwise ordinary hike."
She might have, but when you get there, there's no trickery. This is not a strenuous hike. It's a fifth class walk up the side of a rock dome. If the people who make it out thirteen miles can't figure out that the last couple hundred feet are more than "strenuous" then we really have a population IQ problem at that stage. I suspect she just took a calculated risk, as we all do. Like I keep saying, the cable route scares ME, I have NO idea how normal people do it. And why there are not more dead. It's fairly common place to hear about someone getting swept up in the falls, but no falls from Glacier or Half Dome really boggle me.
eKat's story strikes me as the perfect example. I was once coming down the mist trail (on the approach to Half Dome) with a full pack after a three-day excursion. You basically walk along the side of the falls and there's a railing there to keep you from peeling off the side. Well, when you go down hill, the angle really doesn't keep you from pitching off. I have notoriously bad knee joints and after a multi-day trip, they were really unstable and they gave out at the top. I slipped and grabbed the rail as I slid under it, uttering an obscenity that floated down to all the little Outdoor Ed kiddies' ears. Nearly el-gone-o. I shrugged it off at the time, but it's probably the most near-death I have ever come.
I just find it so odd that stuff like that doesn't happen more.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 25, 2006 - 10:56am PT
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This is what I posted on that thread:
Firstly, condolences to the young lady’s family and friends.
Secondly, I agree, deleting threads is lame. If you have written something that in hindsight perhaps you shouldn’t have or regret, there are other ways of dealing with it. When you delete a thread that other posters are referring to, it can be, confusing, for better lack of a term, to see what people are talking about.
There have been several times, especially when I first came on this forum, that I have regretted writing something (for example, castigating posters who like guns and starting a small flame war until I backed off, but I didn’t delete) but I don’t mind wearing egg on my face, as I am only human and as such, prone to mistakes.
Thirdly, I didn’t take Ron’s post to be callous or insensitive, just inquisitive. Was in appropriate on a thread like this one? I won’t judge that, if some of you want to that’s your choice.
I really can't see why Andother and Graniteclimber want to persist in continuing this topic.
I suggest you drop it guys and focus your energies on more positive topics and activites, such as climbing.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Nov 25, 2006 - 12:03pm PT
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Werner,
Thank you for your very gracious apology. Now I'm left standing alone with egg on my face for my oubursts/rants to you earlier in this thread. I sincerely apologize for them.
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jstan
climber
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Nov 25, 2006 - 12:44pm PT
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If one steps back a bit what you see is that extremely capable and fair-minded people have been very distressed by the loss we all have suffered. A terrible loss.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Nov 25, 2006 - 04:04pm PT
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Werner,
Can you use some other epithet, I would hate to have to sue you for Trademark infringement on "fool"...
What a bunch of pud thumping. Really pathetic. Posting people's real names is also toeing the line legally speaking.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Nov 25, 2006 - 06:28pm PT
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Hey, LEB, have you gone climbing yet?
JL
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Nov 26, 2006 - 12:36pm PT
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Leb wrote: "Hi JL,
Not yet. I still find the passage you wrote very poignant. Good job! Talented man."
Leb, you're ducking the question with flattery. Don't think I'm going to let a passive part of your personality talk your way out of this. It ain't gonna happen. Should I round up a partner for you? A guide? What will it take for you to change your mind, or is this a control thing??
JL
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jstan
climber
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Nov 26, 2006 - 12:59pm PT
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Lois:
John and everyone else has kept a big secret away from you. What the best part of climbing? It is to be there, sitting on a ledge, on a cool spring or fall morning as the sun comes around and makes everything warm. To be there feeling the breeze on you face as you bump your heels against the rock to relieve the pressure on your toes. In the current vernacular, that is the best send of all. Of all the sends, that is the one you will remember.
Cheers,
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Nov 26, 2006 - 01:54pm PT
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Leb wrote:
Hi JL
Here is what it would take
1. A new body - one with less (much less!) arthritis and much less tolls of aging.
2. A new personality - one which actually likes risk taking
3. (Most importantly) A new set of values - one which puts climbing above the things which I currently value and pursue
4. Inability to find joy and fulfillment via my current lifestyle (which is certainly not the case)
5. Reordering of priorities to pursue different goals then I currently have currently identified
--
You're overthinking this, and also, you seem to have a picture in your mind of what climbing has to be, whereas what I'm suggesting A), has no risks, B), requies no bigtime physical exertion, C), does not require a reshuffling of your values, D), is so piddling an expedition that the words "goal" and "priorities" are not applicable.
I'm talking about doing a little walk up a 60 degree slab with a top rope and a qualified guide like Karl B. Just to get a feel for the work without having to change at all, or make any substantial effort and all that jazz.
What would it take for you to entertain the idea? Not actually do it--we'll get to that part later. Just to entertain the idea.
JL
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Nov 26, 2006 - 01:57pm PT
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LEB, I find your list of things you'd require to tie into a top rope nothing short of ignorant. Do you avoid new experiences because you are satisfied with your existence?
If you had responded that you have no interest in partaking, but you enjoy the anthropology you find here, fine. But don't make the mistake of putting labels on something you have no prior experience with. ::twitch twitch::
/an arthritic, non-risk-loving female
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jstan
climber
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Nov 26, 2006 - 02:09pm PT
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John:
I think we are out of luck.
John
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roslyn
Trad climber
washington
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Nov 26, 2006 - 04:04pm PT
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Lois, i started climbing at 41. My body has been battered from snowboarding, skiing, biking,skateboarding and a bad rotator cuff from playing softball. Just recently, i took a friend of mine climbing. She's in her late thirties with rheumatoid arthritis. Her hands are a mess. But, she made if up a fun 5.6 climb and gave a good college try on a few harder grades. We had a few giggles and an all around fantastic time. I know i'm not going to convince you to try climbing, but you can't use excuses such as age and arthritis.
I agree with jstan, my favorite clmbing moments are the long walks to the wall, feeling the spring breeze on my face, and enjoying the moment with my climbing partners..............and of course the cold beer and chicken wing feeds
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 26, 2006 - 04:49pm PT
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You cannot be serious?!
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 26, 2006 - 05:10pm PT
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http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/rock-climbing.htm
Here ya go. You are beyond annoying asking this question considering how long you've been on here and the time people have spent trying to explain climbing to you. From your silly posts above, you won't even consider trying it, so you continue to engage in discussions that you know very little about. How inconsiderate can you get? Stay on your a$$ and do some reading.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 26, 2006 - 05:11pm PT
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They're too busy walking to the cliffs on their hands.
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