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Prod
Trad climber
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Jul 11, 2016 - 10:20am PT
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It seems to me that this would be a good way to do aid climbs, no?
Lots of Aid Climbers bring stick clips. In general it is frowned upon. I think there is 1 El Cap route that has a mandatory stick clip?
I've never used one.
I've frequently wanted one.
I could care less if you use one.
Prod.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:00am PT
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Scorched Earth, belittled for being the "wrong kind of cheating".
Don't those kids know that sport climbing is neither?
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:07am PT
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Deal Breaker, Stick clips. Ranks right up there with daisy chains. How, when and why did stick clipping become so damn common? Unless there is some terrifying consequence if you blow the first clip, you do not need a stick clip. A stick clip is not, and never has been, a mandatory piece of climbing equipment, so don’t make one, don’t bring one to the crag and don’t swap route-specific stick-clipping beta. Just sac up and lead it.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:38am PT
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Stick clip if yer scurred. Nobody cares if you send.
Nuff said.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:44am PT
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It seems to me that this would be a good way to do aid climbs, no?
It's interesting that you say that. The first "cheater stick" I ran across was in 1973 on the South Face of the Column, at the belay ledge above the Kor Roof. There was a coat hanger stored in the crack for the climber's convenience. I don't know if this has changed, but at the time, there was an easy reach left to a bolt under the roof, followed by a very long one to the next bolt over the roof. I suspect that even Kor may have placed an A3 pin in the incipient crack under the roof, because the reach between those two bolts was much longer than any reaches on the Kor Roof.
Anyway, I'm 5' 5" and avoided the coat hanger, but only because someone had left a full-length runner on the upper bolt. My bottom line: the concept of a stick clip has been around for many decades on aid climbs. Al MacDonald's Sierra Club Bulletin story on the first ascent of the West Face of the Leaning Tower in 1961 talks about Harding and MacDonald wanting to design a "Denny Arm" to make the reaches between Glen's bolts. I figured that's what the loop in old Chouinard sky hooks was for -- to stick in the pick end of the Yosemite Hammer, thereby extending my reach for bolts by a foot.
John
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:46am PT
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All right, I admit it. I used one once after having not climbed for a few years and didn't
want to take a grounder.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jul 11, 2016 - 11:48am PT
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I guess the bigger question is why anyone cares how someone else climbs if they are not altering the rock or protection?
+3
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
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It only matters if they represent later that they can lead 5.10 at Clarks, but then you find out on their turn to lead that they can't and you end up huddle bivy'd at the top of El Sendero Luminoso in the Gorge because it took 6 days. ;)
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
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All right, I admit it. I used one once after having not climbed for a few years and didn't
want to take a grounder.
Yeah, but I bet you didn't go back to camp bragging you had onsighted the route, either.
That's the thing, being truthful about your climbs. And not damaging the rock.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
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Hella stick clips in the ORG bitd, early nineties. No forks were given then. Same on walls.
All Krag Kops, Please refer to Tami Knight's Climbing Tale's of Terror. (Required Reading for all climbers)
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
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"I guess the bigger question is why anyone cares how someone else climbs if they are not altering the rock or protection?"
x4
Yes. I use one as well and as I've stated before I'm not a very skilled or a strong climber. Not ashamed or embarrassed. Broken bones that can be avoided on first and second clips are a good thing. Just go out and have fun.
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Matt's
climber
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
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"I guess the bigger question is why anyone cares how someone else climbs if they are not altering the rock or protection?"
I think people care about this because they are worried about the direction that the sport is heading (changes in attitude towards risk, climbing becoming uni-dimensionally focused on the physical aspects of climbing, etc... )
If a generation of climbers look at the sport in a very specific way, it will eventually lead to the altering of the rock and/or protection, with no one left around who cares about those changes.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
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climbing becoming uni-dimensionally focused on the physical aspects of climbing
Two words... Alex Honnold
For stick clipping up a route, I think it's a good discussion to have, like many at this virtual campfire, but nothing to worry about.
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Matt's
climber
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
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You need to be looking at the average climber at the crag, not the anomalies... my suspicion is that the average climber is getting more and more risk-averse.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
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Truly risk averse people probably don't rock climb much.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
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Seriously, why do we care?
cuz its funny and they look dum
If they are not altering the nature of the route, then who cares what grade a particular team experiences or even how "hard" they say they can climb?
grade what grade who talkin bout grades here
We know the real story of our own partners and the experiences we're seeking. That's enough, eh?
ya these peoples real stories are lame and i wanna make fun of them.
Deal Breaker, Stick clips. Ranks right up there with daisy chains.
the nose knows
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
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Different from the scenario GDavis describes but-
The first time I saw someone stick clip their way up a route
was in Rifle in the mid 90s.
It was one of the top women climbers in the U.S.
The logic is- when projecting a route, there is no sense in flaming out or losing skin first go. Get the draws up and suss/work from the top down.
Then, of course, start working the route on lead.
Smart, really.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
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didn't trango come out with the fold/hide a stick clip in the 80's?
anyways stick clipping is 100% love it.. all you big bad rock climbers go lead a route but for those that work too much have no time to train yet want to some what climb some kool looking route GO RIGHT AHEAD!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
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Ya for sure.
There are a lot of objective discussions to be had about maybe sorta kinda 1% of the time they are great possibly.
When I meet people using a stick clip who are also fantastic leaders, with a great mental game who protect routes well and intelligently, I'll start to adjust my thoughts on it. As of now tho it's 99.9% people who are just scared to lead.
edit - 99.999999%
but for those that work too much have no time to train
if you have time to work you have time to train just quit your job big baby
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nathanael
climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
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You need to be looking at the average climber at the crag, not the anomalies... my suspicion is that the average climber is getting more and more risk-averse.
My bet is that while the "average" climber may be more risk averse, the substantial increase in total number of climbers means that there are, in fact, more "bold" climbers now there ever have been.
...But of course they're not at Clark Canyon on the 4th, only posers and kooks climb there hahaha ;)
On the other hand, 4th of July weekend at the Needles there were people on Atlantis, Don Juan, Davy Jones Locker, Pyromania, Scirocco, etc.. People taking falls on gear and no stick clips in sight.
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