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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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With the hook on an adjustable daisy like the Yates. Place the hook, cinch up the daisy till its taut and presto, you're ready to drill.
I've always like to use aiders for thin hooking. Easier to stay in balance and not move the hook around...
Of course this kind of stuff is like miniature golf compared to the OP's route.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Stretching it pretty fa, Tami. You da baddest hat around.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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I'm surprised one of you bad hats haddint written this already.
Guffaw.
SO?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Speaking of FA's, and "do re ma fa so la ti do", there's a route name for you: Solfeggio
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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Top down - although getting to a place at the top holds it own adventures, often.
I often rap in on new hangers, then (on the last jug up) leave old booty nuts that are duplicates on the rack (and rusty quick-links that have been replaced) to save on gear.
I can always go back and get the stuff if I am feeling poor...
BOMBER:
The last one - just recently:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/diamond-in-the-tuff/111867667
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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I'm nearing 1900 FA's of all type with a large majority being sport and mixed. Be responsible, used quality gear, bolt the route for the grade and have fun. Very rewarding to see people out enjoying the routes you have established.
Here is photo of the newest crag in the Rio Grande Gorge near Taos, about 25 routes so far from 5.11a to 5.13a, really nice basalt.
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couchmaster
climber
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I'm with Vitaly here on this quote below. If you need to toprope the sh#t out of a climb (opps, I mean "WORKED" the thing), and then choose to make it runout, you're just a f*#ked in the head person. Either do it ground up like a mench selecting and accepting the natural pro, or TR it and make it so that it's a sane lead, or TR it but STFU and go home and leave the route to your betters. Why dog it to hell and back, stick in a single bolt to make it a death route to a normal person showing up to have a normal ground up go and you claim a FA. That's a nasty piece of business right there. And wrong too.
"Top down sport climbing with a runout should never be done. It's anathema to sport climbing and going top down to perfect the clips.
I share your opinion, even though I have heard of someone TAKING OUT a bolt(s) from an established route because they were able to add a pin instead to make the route "TRAD" while pinkpointing it on pre hung gear after top roping the sh#t out of it.
There is so much wrong with this scenario that I won't waste much time picking it apart, but it made me smile when I heard (entertaining, but a sad smile). But I personally want the pitch to be onsightable for someone trying it from the bottom. If I aided it, worked the moves on fixed line, I will add enough fixed pro (IF the pitch requires it) for a sane person to lead it without having the need to aid and top rope the sh#t out of the pitch. If I got an 11a move down so well that I can do it with a 30 foot runout (risking a 70 ft fall), I will add a bolt so that someone who doesn't know how to do that move won't have to take a giant fall if they f*#k it up. I also don't think the pro or adding a pin instead of a bolt makes the route trad. Trad is climbing things ground up, usually long routes, without previewing or any of the shenanigans like pinkpointing after working the route. I would call that headpointing on pre hung gear. Maybe I don't understand what trad means...English is not my first language, not trying to belittle anyone who has a different definition for the word. Maybe it simply means climbing cracks and placing removable protection in them? Definitions are not as important as the experience, which varies from one person to another...a friend got pissed at me one time because I said on FAs I prefer to climb long routes, start on the bottom and finish on some kind of a summit...someone will always be unhappy with what you say. "
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WBraun
climber
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relax couch
You're starting to sound like me.
Dangerous ground unless you're fully aware that you're doing it.
Don't step off the edge ......
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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I'm nearing 1900 FA's of all type with a large majority being sport and mixed.
That is so proud, Bob - I hope to hit 100 before I am done.
Respect and thanks for your contributions to the climbing community...
to all of you FA'ers, as well.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It's all about absolute obsession for me. Once I spy a line that hooks me then I'm all about a ground-up, onsight FA. And even if it requires cleaning, I try at first to do that free on lead as well and only back down from those standards as necessary.
Unfinished business - stuck on p3 out at the lip of the third roof (end of the red line / intended yellow line doesn't go) - five more roofs on the unclimbed three pitch headwall above it. I haven't revisited it for several years due to family health issues - would still like one more shot at it, but am getting pretty f*#king old for this kind of .12/13 R/X sh#t.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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got any OTHER pics of that choss pile? That one must be soggy with spray by now
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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nice input ecdh.
in my universe, only onsighters can claim an FA.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It has a stretch of highly unusual Smith / tuft-like choss on the lower half of p3, otherwise pretty decent basalt.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Im not sure I've ever been on a runout rap job. Where do guys/gals do this?
I suspect TD'rs don't cop to having done this. Probably inexperienced equippers. GU'rs will say 'tough nuggies, that's where the stance was, or the hook was for the adventure of going GU.' And may take pride in that, so they won't hesitate to talk about it.
More often than not, I see it take shape as making the clips reachy, where a shorter climber on a TD route has to make one extra move to make the clip that otherwise wouldn't be run out.
I could be wrong tho.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Looks interesting Healyee
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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A few thoughts about placing bolts on a ground up ascent:
Drilling from stances is nice because you are putting a bolt where the next person will be able to clip it. Unless you are tall and don't consider placing it where shorter climbers can reach it. This mistake caused a friend of mine to take a life changing fall some years ago.
Drilling from hooks can take a lot more thought to get it right. The process is less natural. The trick is to free climb to a spot you can clip from, then figure out the hooking. If the hook placement is a larger feature it will be a good hold to clip from, and the business is pretty routine. On a thin hard pitch it's another story. But if you can stay put long enough to set a hook and get stood in an aider you can probably clip a bolt. But still think about it, for example there are situations where clipping at shoulder or even waist level is better than pulling enough cord to clip high.
It's a bad idea to make upward progress on the hooks, I've seen this lead to whacked routes.
And if you want to see high accomplishment in stance drilling go check out some of Ron Carson's Dome Rock routes. I think it's the third bolt on Skid Row that leaves me with my head shaking. Ron had it dialed in. Carson Kodas Arete at Courtright was stance drilled too. Think about that when your up at the second bolt standing on 5.10 smears with big fall potential and all you have to do is make the clip.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I usually find a photo of a peak with a few established lines, if any. Find more photos from backpacker forums. Draw a bunch of lines, photoshop climbing pictures and submit the sh#t to AAJ. At some point someone will realize it is a big trolll!!! :)
On Tokopah Domes in Sequoia, we found a long slab route, fixed 4 ropes on it from the top put a few bolts in the beginning, till it got into 5.9R and stopped bolting. Made a bunch of topos with 5.8R marked and a bolted anchor up higher. Someone is in for a surprise! Downclimb friction for 100 feet or free solo to the top! WOOT!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Thanks Dingus (and dikhed) - it is cool, maybe too cool for me anymore, but we'll find out this fall when I'm hopefully back in shape enough to try it...
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MisterE
Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
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2-pitch .11a - last month
Crux on p2:
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Looks great Mister E and thanks for the kind words. It has been great seeing people enjoying the climbs I help put up.
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