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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 31, 2016 - 08:45am PT
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Climate change is not brought on by dogsleds or snowshoes, but by greenish gasses.Things used to be so mellow around here, too.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Mar 31, 2016 - 08:57am PT
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Yes.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 31, 2016 - 10:36am PT
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The whole issue skirts too close to political correctness, and I had to deal with that for years in academia, so I remain skeptical.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 31, 2016 - 10:49am PT
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John, there's nothing wrong with skepticism in science. It's a lack of skepticism that distinguishes the non-scientific from the scientific.
I think DMT tags the crux of the issue: science can tell us how much of what emissions of what substances would likely affect climate (all other things being equal), but economics determines what we will do about it. From my 43 years of economic forecasting, I strongly believe that economics is not a science, the title of the Nobel Prize in Economic Science notwithstanding.
No single scientist or group of scientists can tell people what policies and actions are worth their cost. Moreover, since current actions affect future outcomes, not everyone affected by our actions has a seat at the table. It is, indeed, as pointed out above, a very difficult and multi-faceted issue.
John
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Mar 31, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
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Could it be, they are just wrong? That they cannot change the world?
DMT, you are absolutely wrong. We ARE changing the world. We're cranking up the thermostat like crazy...
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Mar 31, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
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For part of it, sure. Other parts of climate change happen regardless. We are but one of various forces of climate.
What i want to know: are we responsible for the glaciers in the karakorum that are actually growing?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Mar 31, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
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The answer to the question is, of course, a resounding yes. You have to be deliberately contrarian or uninformed to believe otherwise. Here's my take as a scientist. The other part of the science that you have to take into account is that humans are the product of evolution and have evolved to behave in certain ways to events. I would put the odds at somewhere around 0.1% than humans will have the resolve and capability to stop the upcoming events that are almost sure to happen. The NY Times just had an article on a new consensus building in the climate community that Western Antarctica will almost certainly collapse and result in sea level rises of over 10 feet. It will likely happen in scores rather than hundreds of years.
I think we should consider abandoning our current approach and start focusing on moving and/or raising coastal communities; moving island communities,... that kind of thing. It may well be a better use of scarce resources. In any event, it will be a calamity on the scale of a world war or worse. But, that's just me.
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mountain girl
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
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Yes, you have been doing your homework, Moosewarming 😊
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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For me it's a tie between Ricky and Wilbeer for the "win."
PS: I'm surprised Cosmic isn't in here making the usual accusations.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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"Proof" is a concrete though elusive, concept.
The only way to prove that Bigfoot doesn't exist is to observe him, not existing.
It's hard to definitively prove, that, exercis is good for you. Though we all kinda know it is.
So keeping that in mind..
I am a micropaleontologist emeritus. I have studied the fossil record extensively and examined parts of it firsthand exhaustively.
Which allows me to say that, except for possibly very early on, there is no record of heating on his scale, in this short a period of time, in the geologic record! The fact that it coincides exactly with our production of industry and various gas, etc, production, is a little too timely to rationally suspect coincidence.
Yes
There is a human connection!
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WBraun
climber
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Is human activity responsible for climate change?
It's so easy to figure this one out.
Go into a room of 100 people sitting peacefully.
Start screaming obscenities and threatening physical harm at them and watch the climate immediately change in the room.
Now one can see any negative effect on the planets harmonious ecosystem will exhibit the same results.
Americans are stoopid if they think that human activity doesn't have any effect on the climate .......
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Sumner's siding projects could start early this year...
The temperature measured at Klawock Airport in Southeast Alaska hit 71 degrees, which University of Alaska Fairbanks climate researcher Brian Brettschneider said is a record high for the state for the month of March, in any year on record.
Before 2016, Alaska temperatures in March hadn't hit the 70-degree mark for any years on record.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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I watched most of the video until the professor stated that he went from vegetarian to vegan because it would save 4 cups of water a day.
I then realized these people are completely insane.
Mankind has an effect on our climate but it is infinitesimal.
As our climate evolves into one that may not be conducive to human life, we blame in order to change it.
No matter how many cups of water you save, our planet will survive us by 600 billion years.
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WBraun
climber
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Mankind has an effect on our climate but it is infinitesimal.
infinitesimal?
No much greater then you will ever realize ......
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Certain people here won't believe me, but "major" human caused climate change is just a fact and is driven by the burning of fossil fuels. We (including the Big Oil Companies) have known about this for decades. Hell, the big Oil Co's were the first to really put effort into studying this by the early 80's. Why? Because they do really really long range planning to work out anything that may or will affect their bottom line. These companies had and have the technology, and the money, to do it too.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mankind has an effect on our climate but it is infinitesimal. Got to disagree pud. All evidence points to the contrary. An example that's not exactly on point but illustrates the concept that man's consequences are greater than what he or she can easily observe. People make plastic, use it frequently, sometimes dispose of it properly, sometimes not. That plastic now constitutes vast, and I mean vast islands in the world's oceans, the largest of which is in the Pacific and is approximately the size of Texas. Vast populations of fish have been fished to near extinction. Individual households flush expired meds down the toilet to the point that those meds now show up in our drinking water. Individual households throw any old paint, cleaners and other products containing chemicals and those same chemicals now appear in the water table. All of this results from individual acts of people that, by themselves, appear to have no great consequence but, when combined with every other small act, has a tremendous impact. No exactly a "climate" example, but I think you get my drift.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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...our planet will survive us by 600 billion years.
you're a bit off on that estimate. The Sun is currently burning up the Hydrogen that is is composed of (73.5%, Helium is the next largest element at 24.9%). The rate of Hydrogen burning is set by the pp-fusion reaction chain, which is slow.
Currently the Sun is half way through the main sequence of stellar evolution. The core of the Sun is increasing in density, and the overall temperature of the Sun is increasing. It will leave the main sequence becoming a red giant, it's size expanding to about twice the Earth's orbital radius. At that point the Earth ceases to be...
A billion years of burning the Hydrogen in the Sun's shell leads to Hellium burning, which is hot and fast, 100 million years, then Hellium shell burning for about a million years, at which time it collapses into a white dwarf when fusion burning stops.
The same sort of science that gives you a detailed description of the Sun also provides you information about the Earth's climate. That science has shown that human activity is a major factor, if not the major factor in the recent (past 100 years) climate history.
Humans are not a minor player here. This is not some esoteric science either, the very first correct explanation of the Earth's surface temperature was written in 1896, by Arrhenius. In that paper he also calculates the effect of human energy production by coal burning, and the subsequent surface temperature increases. Basically his estimate is close to the modern value for greenhouse gases. He miss-estimated the time scale over which this would occur because he could not anticipate the dramatic increase in energy production. His coal burning scenario, projected into the future, fell way short of the actual.
The science is clear cut on this. To stop the cause of climate change, which is due to the increase of the surface temperature, stop putting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
It is really that simple.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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I, similar to jaybro, come at this topic from a geologic perspective. So simply;ditto what jaybro said. But "strict" climate change is NOT the only threat to humanity. There is a very simple chemical relationship which is very well documented going on in the ocean. You know that the ocean is a huge CO2 sink. Well, H2O and CO2 combine readily to form H2CO3 (carbonic acid). Well, the pH of the ocean is slightly basic and many invertebrates rely on this pH of 8.5 (off the top of my head) to build exoskeletons. This includes coral reefs, foraminifera, clams, and various gastropods. So I hope you can see where I am going with this.
Thanks for mentioning Arrhenius Ed. I had forgotten all about him. I was pretty passionate about learning all I could about this topic from the mid 80's to about 2000.
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