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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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But Nefarious, haven't you seen their pickups?
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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The Monument Basin Pole is mostly known as Standing Rock, not to be confused with the Monument Valley Pole, known as the Pole. Clear as mud, right?
Standing Rock is a blast. 5.10 corner system; serial 5.10 bulges in a groove system that blanks out for a bit (5.11 reach/dyno with bomber toprope protection); more bulges to the top. It was routinely aided for years so it takes pretty good gear, lots of offset nuts in the scars. The signature move: wobble up, underclinging underneath the bulge, until you can slap around for a flared jam, then mantle awkwardly over with head crammed beneath the next bulge. Repeat. This is the formation for which was coined the phrase "layers of Rye-Krisp held together with moistened kitty-litter." But it's cleaned up a lot since then.
The drive sucks, and has reportedly worsened with the recent all-time gullywashers of this fall. Best to check with the rangers about this. You'll be passing right by a number of other worthwhile erosional remnants-- Washer Woman and Monster Tower are the best-known-- so you might as well make the most of the beating you'll be putting on your partner's truck and climb some of those as well. The latter are Wingate, and climb much more 'normally' than the Cutler funk down in the Basin. I can't claim much more experience on the Cutler, but apparently some of the other Basin towers are pretty damn cool- the Meemohive comes to mind? Anyhow, allow a solid 3 hours from moab if you're proceeding directly to the Basin, most of which is fairly cruiser 2d or 3rd gear with intermittent crawling over ledges. In the ideal world, you'd sucker someone else into driving your gear while you enjoys the scenery from a bike.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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There's a lot of lightning around that area and the Pole is like a big ass lightning rod. Wouldn't want to be hanging about on that thing during a storm.
The one I really wanted to climb but never did is Shiprock. My original partner Richard Harrison bagged it, basically 3rd class, some time ago in just a few hours so a blitz ascent is possible but I have no idea about how legal this is.
JL
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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I've done a couple of the towers on the Navajo Res., including the Totem Pole in 1987. At the time I must admit I thought the poaching aspect added something to the experience that was very memorable. Of course, I was 26 years old in 1987.
Would I do it again? I don't know. Some of those formations beg to be climbed as much as anything, anywhere. But I do have some regrets. The Res. is as close to a third-world country as anything I've seen in the USA. Just remember, that some Navajos really do not want you there climbing on those towers. Not only are climbers trespassing, but perhaps dissing a people that have generally been treated very poorly by white men throughout our history.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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"Some may make a lot from the Casinos, but most do not."
Well, maybe that's true in NM, but in Cali it's not. At least not for the many casinos in this area. Again, remember, I see their checks, and I happen to know a few of them, whom I've asked some questions. They've been gracious enough to answer. Everyone who is a member of the tribe benefits, usually nicely, from the casinos. An average check seen in my bank is $15k for the month for a regular tribal member. When you know the size of the surrounding communities (very small) you know there's a lot more money elsewhere. But, since you mentioned it, yeah, free college, health care, no taxes... Just no taxes on my quite-a-bit-smaller-than-$15k-take-home would change my life for the better. Free health care? Fvck yeah! I'm doin'a small money dance then!
It's just really troubling driving through the res and seeing how poorly they live. And I'm not talking about the elders who live in Hogans, or whatever. I'm talking living in twigs, with trash all over, etc. Just flat out dirty. It's comparable to the poorest people I saw in Egypt and Thailand who live in what equates to a carport, with a dividing wall down the center to keep their livestock in the other half. The difference is, those people were actually really poor. Seems to be much more of a choice here. Saddening.
"But Nefarious, haven't you seen their pickups?"
Lol! I actually was thinking about a group I saw roll out of a flashy new Navigator, a week or so ago, while I wrote the original message. Too funny!
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Nefarius,
If I understand you correctly, a person would choose to live in squalor when there is nothing that compels them to do so??
Come on . . . you've apparently traveled in poor places. Do you think if you gave a poor person in Cairo $15,000 they would spend it in a way that makes a long term improvement in their life? Maybe a few would, but I think most would spend it in a way that brings immediate comforts and material objects that are more tangible. . not necessarily the kind of things that would create an improvement in one's life five or ten years down the road.
Poverty creates a certain way of thinking. I've experienced it abroad, and I'm pretty sure I've experienced it on more than one reservation. In addition to the poverty mindset, many native cultures suffer from chronic alcoholism, and and a sense of inferiority from getting treated like crap for generations by the dominant white culture.
I think this way of thinking is rooted in a certain lack of self esteem.
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Ouch!
climber
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Is this the Totem Pole?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Seemingly, you completely misunderstood my post.
No, not saying a person (or all persons in general as it is posed) choose, or would choose, to live in poverty. I was simply asking questions because it does appear that plenty of folks on reservations choose to do so. Thus the paradox I posed by saying that the people in the third world countries I have visited live in squalor by no choice of their own.
Since we're using my Cairo/Egypt example... Here's the huge difference. The people living in the conditions I described there got up, travelled a great distance into Cairo each morning and worked hard to earn the little bit they have.
I believe that the majority of the people in places like Cairo, Thailand, etc. lives would be changed drastically with $15k. They have a desire to have a good home and take care of their families, etc. You have to remember we're talking about people who bust their ass for $250 USD per year. And those are the lucky few who manage to get government jobs and the like. In Cairo, that was *good* pay. Many bust their ass to survive on much less.
Whereas, from what I've witnessed on reservations and witnessed incomes as being shows that they choose to live the way they do. If foreign countries got half the aid, per capita, that folks on the reservations got those countries would be drastically different places.
I'd definitely agree that self-esteem is the big part of the puzzle. With Indians having been so far out of the loop for so long (segregated from the rest of the world), however, I don't see it as having much to do with you or I or the distant past either. At some point, it really has nothing to do with us, at all, and comes down to personal responsibility and choice. I was just simply asking questions about these observations and noting that it's a sad thing/life.
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Ouch!
climber
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The worst thing that ever happened to the American Indian was the reservation.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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I'd agree with that, Ouch!.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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BTW, there's no casinos on the Navajo rez.
It really is a matter of respect. It IS trespassing.
Of the dozen or so FAs of towers I climbed on the Navajo Reservation, a majority I got to know the local residents and talked to them about climbing nearby. Picking up hitchhikers was a major "in" for me, but it was only over a period of years and years, that I picked up the right folks (who lived near a tower). Each climb on average required four or five reconnasance trips to the area prior to the actual ascent. In other words, patience is the key to seamless climbing on the rez. Yahoos, or people who think they have a "right" to climb there, need not apply.
Saying that, there are no hogans or residents near Agathala, and it is outside the Tribal Park, I believe. The route is 5.7 and stellar, but don't be fooled by the rating, it is an unbelievably wild adventure. You will need an assistant to drive your car...
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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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I practically grew up on the rez. There were more natives than anglo's in my school (ute and navajo) I never understood it myself.
The peeps on the rez get a lot of aid but most never take advantage of it. They usually spend it on alcohol and FAS is/was a big problem.
There may also be an issue with leaving sacred lands. Some of the natives I grew up with had some great vision. They got a good education and frequently go back to the rez to help their people (the Dine or phonetically din-A).
On another note I'm tired of people saying the white man is the root of all the problems for the natives. That somehow the Natives would have been better off if we left them in peace. The native tribes were never in peace. The Navajo took the land from the Hopi. The Ute took some from the Navajo and Hopi. Ute and Navajo still fight. Their history is a history of war for the best land. Just like it is for the Anglo's.
(good thing I'm leaving work; I won't be able to read the backlash for that comment!)
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Thanks to Citune for posting the link to that movie, too! Cool!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Well said, Deuce.
The navajos are currently building casinos. Started this year. Also, the other tribes do have them and profit heavily from them.
"You will need an assistant to drive your car... "
This sounds rather interesting... LIke a fun adventure for sure. If it's outside the tribal park why would you need an assistant to drive your car? Is it still illegal?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Yeah, thanks for the link Cin. I would like to see the full tv size version.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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I've traveled on the Tribal Loop many times ....where the Totem Pole is......The Tribal Loop people collect money from you just so you can drive your car on that dusty, bumpy dirt road. It cost $ to camp there.... you can buy souvenirs there....more $...and once on the loop, you can visit a hogan (costs money), and see a fake Navajo wedding (costs money)....then further on down the road, some dirty kids come out of their mud hogan to sell you come beads or sand paintings ( $)...and if you wish to take their picture..(they ARE cute...)... well... you guessed it.......more money.......Soon;. the casinos....already been coal mining and cranking out uranium for decades... cutting timber all over the place south of Canyon de Chelly........Hollywood has enough money to buy out any sacred lands or areas......but poor climbers;......just not quite profitable enough to pull it off.....maybe if one of the Kennedys wanted to climb the Pole?....maybe Brad Pitt and Angelina?..........(If ya got to do The Pole.... well;...go do it , man....). I lived and worked on the Res for 2 years;.....I know that if you are cool, friendly, and psyched ......it's hardly ever a problem to climb on the Res...Don't be afraid of Indians....... BUT... The Pole....well;.... that's a different story......be sly, don't get caught, bring some super big pro for the wide section..(We used large friends stacked with cut 2 by fours!)...and fix the last pitch or you will never get back to the belay!)... Bow down before the Pole!
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 12:07am PT
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This is an excellent thread. Nothing like intelligent dialogue.
Ship Rock wasn't difficult to do because of its relatively remote location. Fun climb! Make sure you have a good topo and hide your vehicle well (or line up a subman). Route finding can be tricky for the inexperienced because it winds around a bit.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 12:12am PT
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I remember Kauk having all four tires slashed and all his windows smashed by the Indians for climbing in a forbidden area out there once.
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 10, 2006 - 12:24am PT
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Probably just pissed off teenagers. Bummer.
Aside from the Pole, Spyder Rock is still one of the prized formations, isn't it? And I mean no disrespect. I know it is sacred to the tribes.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 10, 2006 - 12:52am PT
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Shiprock is awesome, and you can hide your car in a ravine so nobody will hopefully mess with it.......The start is easy to find... starts out of a cave.(5.9)...then 4th class...THEN up and left.....and some off route pitons to lure you right...don't go........(It's been awhile..)...once at the notch....it's the raps, the traverse, the 4th class section,.. then up the edge to the top....great fun, awesome summit, and don't be scared of Indians.....Bow down before Shiprock. Spyder Rock was freed by The Late (Still so sad over this...) Todd Skinner....at 5.10++.......Hike down the Bat Trail (Prefered) or rap from the overlook...(lame, goes through sticker bushes, and has bad bolts..and is overhanging through the air... WAY hard to jumar back out when you are pooped and have a heavy pack..)...6 pitches.......pitch one 5.9 groove to 5.8 squeeze pitch two 5.10 hands/O W to 5.10 chinmey/squeeze (Anchor fixed chock and Fp) Pitch three 5.9- chinmey to three bolts to 5.10 steep finger/hand (Belay at a horn in a cave) Pitch 4 5.9/5.10 OW and Chimney with old bolts for pro. Pitch five crawl through a hole (rotten rock) to 5.10 O W ....poor rock on this pitch....to 5.10 squeeze slot. Pitch 6 5.10+ Ow protected by old bolts ......traverse left (exposed) and up to summit!. 3 sets of cams, some larger cams, large nuts, and lots of slings and biners. 5.10 A2 or 5.10++ This climb is illigal. If you climb this Spyder Rock, the Spyder Woman will get you and eat you and spit out your bones ... you can see all the bones of the dead climbers on the summit even from the parking lot. Honkey Rangers will chase you down too, and throw the book at you... you will end up in Federal Court with big fines, jail sentence, a cell-mate named Marv the Molester, and all your gear taken away and given to some flunky Ranger who is on SAR somewhere in the Park Service System. The Navajo Indians will hate you, George Bush will hate you, and you will get sick and have flu-like illness for months. You will be laughed at when you visit your local gym and it will be very difficult to get laid. Coffee will taste funny to you and you will soon quit your job and start watching alot of day-time T V (This happened to Warren Harding.....).......Is it all worth it?.....It's up to you... Afterall...it IS The one and only Spyder Rock......the fearsome Spyder Rock.....
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