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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:13pm PT
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Narcissists can be very attractive. Take Donald Trump (please):
He is a classic personality disorder type, yet look how alluring he is. People fall into his web (maybe you have a narcissistic edge if you are won over by him?) and they wont find out until it is too late that there is no depth there, only a shiny exterior.
There's a feeling I get when I'm with a narcissist. Unfortunately, it's taken me way too long to get wise to it. But once you identify it, it makes you want to back away.
Thanks for bringing your depthful process to the taco, Nut.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:42pm PT
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It takes 2 to create drama on a scale you've presented. Whoa dude, did you eat some "Bad Attitude Wheaties" or something?
You've been quite sour lately
It does not take 2 to Tango when it comes to cluster B types
They generate their own drama and the victims are unwittingly sucked in
The cluster B types use people without their knowledge
Most people are driven by genuine feelings, trust and a degree of altruism
Cluster B types manipulate those genuine feelings for their own gain
And in the process destroy the other person
Cluster B types are so skilled at manipulation that you don't realize what's happening. It's very insidious.
I think a classic example is the battered woman. It's easy for us to blame the victim for not leaving the perpetrator, but these women have been brain washed by the perpetrator. The victim's confidence and self esteem have been insidiously destroyed by a skilled manipulator, and the women are no longer able to see their full range of options. Even very intelligent people are susceptible to the manipulation of cluster B types.
When you trust someone, you tend to believe what they say. If you have a very skilled manipulator, they can slowly use your trust to make you believe that you are a very terrible, worthless person. The more you love and trust, the more susceptible you are to their manipulations.
But once you identify it....
Exactly. You'll get caught in the web once, but once you figure out what the hell happened then you start to quickly recognize the cluster B types when you meet them.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jan 28, 2016 - 05:44am PT
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I'm only here because I'm up and have read East of Eden twice, enjoying the tale both times, but not spending any time really delving into the characters' motives.
But I recall Cathy, the little witch!
SparkNotes, God bless you.
Cathy Ames
The parasitic, manipulative Cathy is the embodiment of evil in the novel and the most static of the main characters. Her evil seems to be innate and all-consuming, as she displays murderous and sexually perverse tendencies from an early age.
A figure of infertility and destruction who kills her parents and attempts to kill her own unborn children, Cathy is a debased version of the biblical Eve, whom the Christian tradition sees as the mother of all humankind.
Like Eve, Cathy is associated with sin, but whereas Eve is deceived into committing sin, Cathy embraces it wholeheartedly and commits evil simply for its own sake. Cathy has an overwhelmingly pessimistic view of humankind: she believes that there is only evil in the world and therefore surrenders herself to it fully.
All the while, she fails to understand the good in other characters and instead uses their trusting natures to achieve her own predatory ends. Notably, we never get any sense that Cathy is using her evil acts to reach any sort of ultimate goal or aim.
For this reason, some critics have dismissed Cathy as an implausible character and a major weak link in Steinbeck’s novel. The narrator of East of Eden himself is somewhat confounded by Cathy, as he struggles to understand her and revises his opinion of her throughout the novel.
In any case, Cathy is a symbol of the human evil that will always be present in the world, and her loss of power over Adam and Cal bolsters the novel’s message that individuals have the choice to reject evil in favor of good.
And that last is what's called timshel.
Fascinating subject here about what makes people tick.
Thanks, Nutso.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jan 28, 2016 - 06:15am PT
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When i got divorced it was like group sex...I got screwed in front of the jury. .Rodney D..
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Jan 28, 2016 - 06:22am PT
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Beautiful Me
Wrapped up in myself
Cloaking the inner me
What's not to like
How bad could I be
Gone to find myself
Forsaking all I go
Ducks ducks ducks
All in a row
Centered and complete
Such beauty you can't hate
I'm the best I've ever been
My priorities are straight
I'm full of myself
And think you'd confess
I should do what I want
I'm probably the best
I'm glad you understand
And most people can see
That no one else deserves
To be as full of me
-Beautiful Me
01/28/2016
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 28, 2016 - 06:47am PT
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You want this thread to be like an OPRAH session..!?! dude and u talk alot of sh#t about rich corporate dudes.. oprah just scored 12million bucks on those recent im still a fat azz commercials..
What are we going to do with these bernie voters...
Anyways, doesnt it suck dating a TROLLCUNTING..
Those early RED FLAGS do help.. ive had the misfortune of dating the like.. when it came to break up talk i told em "ur a bad investment".. bad people seem to cost $$$..
Good people save you $$$..
Currently the lady im with is awesome. Not a day of stupiville.. good luck with you new lady hope its a better run for the dollar..
Edit:this thread needs to be more like..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jan 28, 2016 - 07:46am PT
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Nut, your 'anecdotal' view sounds very plausible, and spookily familiar.
Check out this article:
http://shrink4men.com/2013/04/30/obsessing-over-an-abusive-ex-thoughts-on-being-stuck/
If you've never been in an abusive relationship with a 'Cluster B' type, you are more skilled at identifying them than most. An enviable skill.
Edit: "Cluster B types are so skilled at manipulation that you don't realize what's happening. It's very insidious."
+1 & whooollleee bunch more
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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Apogee, good summary where the background perfectly applies to me and everything else was a perfect match for my state during the marriage. By the time I chose to leave the second time, I had zero thoughts of going back or recriminations. I was truly free in that sense.
I only reached that state because of intensive efforts with personal counseling and self-enrolled anger management classes to better understand the dynamics, to see it was not something I could deal with sufficiently on an intellectual plane, and the deepest impact for me to resolve the emotional energy that fueled my part in the dance, was going to something called the Hoffman Process. Basically an 8 day retreat to a "safe place" to go as deep and primal as you dare into how your hard-wired emotional responses came to be, and changing it. That was the best thing I ever did for myself. That unlocked a different level of awareness to understand the patterns, massively increased my coping mechanisms, but at some points I still had melt-downs in trying to cope with it, and my increased self esteem let me have the option of leaving in the face of something that I recognized I could never fix.
But because of the kids and my desire to remain involved in their lives, there is an open channel of vulnerability still that can always be exploited. That is what I continue practicing to manage.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 28, 2016 - 09:00am PT
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I like to look at this situation as I might have in my former life - yer dealing with a double agent
skilled in the use of misinformation.
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overwatch
climber
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Jan 28, 2016 - 09:07am PT
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I know the guy that claims he broke "Jerry's" nose.You can barely make him out in the video.
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jan 28, 2016 - 09:49am PT
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NutAgain and Sierra Ledge Rat - I want to thank you for posting your thoughts and I learned my ex was a bit Cluster B.
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jan 28, 2016 - 09:53am PT
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I know the guy that claims he broke "Jerry's" nose.You can barely make him out in the video.
Really Overwatch you know him?!
My brother and I videotaped that episode when it aired and remember every word spoken...
"Your gonna git hit, YOUR GONNA GIT HIT!"
I love oddball info, would like to know more about the chair tosser if you care to share!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 28, 2016 - 10:05am PT
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narcissistic sociopaths and sociopathic narcissists do indeed suck.
Avoid them at all costs.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 28, 2016 - 11:55am PT
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Interesting and mature insights - but simply blaming another for your own life problems is what's at the core here.
In that regard, the heavy and involved intellectualization of these problems is itself rather narcissistic. It's probably why you fell in love with this person.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 28, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
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Mentored a person who probably was borderline and then had to un-mentor her. Difficult work. The trail of mayhem in her rear view mirror was endless and quite amazing.
The big picture was she was deeply suffering and I wasn't going to be able to help her and had to cut all ties to avoid the constant deception and associated drama.
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overwatch
climber
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Jan 28, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
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yes I don't mind sharing, it is a part of my life that I am not proud of. I hung out with and was friends with several WAR skins and this guy, who I won't name, was married to Tom Metzgers' daughter. The only reason I hung out with those types of people was not because of their philosophy, which I really did not agree with but because I wanted to test myself in real fights.
I had started in martial arts at an early age and had done the tournament fighting route, but soon realized that it was not a true test of one's ability. At that time there were many gangs that were associated with the punk rock movement.
This was way before the UFC existed and there really were no outlets for full contact fighting in this country. I eventually went and fought in Taiwan, but in the meantime I found all that I was looking for and more going to shows with those guys and I am lucky to still be alive today to tell the tale.
I was actually supposed to go with them to the taping of the show but talked my way out of it because I was realizing what knuckleheads they really were.
They came back from the incident and the dude proudly proclaimed that he was the one that threw the chair. I had my doubts because the guy was really a mild mannered person but his claim was confirmed by others that were there. I think he was swept up in the moment and he was trying to prove himself to the white aryan resistance guys that were really hard core.
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Gerg
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jan 28, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
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thanks Overwatch!
Its neat to remember something so vivid in ones life then many years down the line(that was like 1988 or 89?) it comes back and you get to hear the history behind it.
We watched it over and over on video, and it was very obvious the guy you know tossed the chair. And it was big news then of course - David Letterman had a 'new inventions' gag piece a couple nights later where he had a Geraldo 'Door-knocker' which was a little wood chair and a door with Geraldo's face in relief like a bronze lion or whatever!
Ask him if he saw that!?
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overwatch
climber
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Jan 28, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
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It has been about 10 years since I've seen that guy. he has actually kind of reform his beliefs and is no longer married to Metzger's daughter. last I heard he was managing the punk rock band DI
vvvvv Thanks for the thoughtful post, elohellymae. I know. I look back and giggle with glee that I am still here, although I think you are loling because you think I am really a racist and you would not want to let an honest share go by without mocking.
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Chris Roderick
climber
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Jan 28, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
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Good thing you're the only person this has ever happened to, Nut Again (signs away another half month worth of wages to attorney..) :-)
I'm sure there is a part of you that, like me, unconsciously sought this out. Growing up in an unstable environment, you grow so accustomed to chaos, that whenever things are going well, there is always an ominous and highly uncomfortable feeling that the other shoe is about to drop.
But now, about to embark on another months' long legal battle, I feel eerily calm and focused.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Jan 28, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
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Dear Mr. Nut. I have quite a story to tell, but the short of it is, like you, I have been the victim of a narcissistic sociopath, who unfortunately happens to be MY MOTHER! I didn't discover this until 2014 when my wife and I had to put my parents in an assisted living facility. Despite hard, honest work on the part of me and my wife, every time we went to visit, at some point my mother (no, she never was a mother to me, but merely a BIRTHING UNIT!), would verbally abuse us for no good reason. She took away my Power of Attorney to manage their estate (which her lawyer said I was doing a fine job of). And now I am out of her will, against my father's wishes. Unfortunately, he passed away later that year. It should have been her instead! Anyway, it's been difficult facing the fact that I never had the kind of mother a loving son truly deserves.
I could write a book about this (maybe I will someday). If you want to hear more, PM me. Good luck and move forward with those who truly care about you! The best advice is forget about those awful people, and NEVER give them a chance to abuse you again. Sever all ties. Do not talk with them. Pretend they don't exist!
I plan to title my book, "Murder By Narcissism".
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