Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
John M
climber
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
|
End of thread as far as I'm concerned.
It often takes more then a few days for the word to get around and for someone to find out. Spreading the word is a good thing in my opinion. Thats how we self police.
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
|
Yeah, agreed, don't go deleting just because there was no instant gratification and a few wankers wanked.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
|
I thought the thread was about this
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
|
Chipping. The thought of it hurts my head. What kind of retard chips away at the rock to enhance a hold?
That's a hard road to walk down.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
|
You'd be surprised how much rock enhancement was done in Yosemite over the years .....
Just take the Nose free for example.
Outright full blown manufactured holds made on the Jardine Traverse.
Jardine was a chipping enhancement machine everywhere he went ......
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
|
You'd be surprised how much rock enhancement was done in Yosemite over the years .....
No. I'm pretty sure at least 96.8% of the routes I ever did in the valley were enhanced by the time I got to them.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
|
Not the same ^^^^^
|
|
ryankelly
Trad climber
Bhumi
|
|
|
Jan 18, 2016 - 09:44pm PT
|
someone knows. speak up
|
|
Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 12:32am PT
|
What kind of retard chips away at the rock to enhance a hold?
Way back when, climbers were not always as astute as they are now, regarding preservation and avoiding permanent damage to the rock. Go check out Serenity Crack, behind the Mr. Majestyk Mountain Motel, sometime. Not much serenity there, at all. The route is a closely-spaced ladder of holes that were excavated with big, tied-off angles. It used to be a "worthless" rotten seam that took RURPs, KBs and thin LAs. Relegated to Trash Status, it was a mild aid practice line for a generation's worth of lazy afternoons. Today, it offers free-climbing access to the Sons of Yesterday cracks above, and that is the only reason anybody climbs Serenity, at all, these days. If it hadn't been pounded out with innumerable pitons, no route would exist there, at all.
Elsewhere in the Valley, such "retards" as Harding, Bridwell, Bard, Porter, etc., are rumored (or known, depending on whom you ask) to have altered the rock to make ascents possible, or at least easier. And, not just bolts and rivets, but full-blown chiseling and chipping and pinning-out and pounding away with big, heavy piton hammers. Jardine is typically the only one demonized for chipping, but only because his Nose Traverse is so notorious. Who bitches and moans about Outer Limits, these days? Did you know that Bridwell also took a hammer to Wheat Thin? On rappel, no less, while rap-bolting that pitch?
Today, people are much less likely to engage in chipping and chiseling. There are many more climbers, and there is a greater awareness of how limited the rock resource is. There is no such thing as a "worthless, rotten seam" anywhere in the Valley, anymore.
Also, because routes, like the Nose, are already all pounded out, they can be free climbed. The chipping and chiseling and pinning-out has already been done. So, isn't that a good thing? Free climbing is where it's at, right? So, now that many, many cracks in the Valley have been totally pounded out into fingerlock ladders, they've been properly prepared for modern sport climbers.
Maybe someone high-balled Chips Ahoy, and decided that was the new norm, for everyone - CHOP-CHOP-CHOP - No more ropes, you dopes. Get with the program.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 08:33am PT
|
when the Valley is cutting edge (it waxes and wanes with time) it is a laboratory for style in First Ascents... these "experiments" appear throughout and are testament to the generational dynamics the mold climbing there in the various eras and epochs.
there was a time when chipping wasn't the abomination we now consider it to be... a repulsion that is born of these initial exercises that explored the stylistic boundaries.
I don't condemn the experiments... but once we see that they are not the way, not acceptable style, it is entirely proper to condemn their continued use.
The routes may still be fun to climb. One should not be disingenuous...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 08:51am PT
|
There was no experiments in blatant chipping on free climbing routes ever.
It was always condemned.
The pin job that was done on Freestone was condemned right off the bat before it was even started.
It was overruled and the perpetrator went ahead did the job despite being sincerely asked not to do it.
Jardine's tactics were all over the nose not just on the traverse.
He chiseled everywhere on free climbs he did.
People just got the best of themselves and just had to make it go.
That my friends is our frail human traits as defective conditioned souls ......
|
|
Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 09:03am PT
|
Tom,
With all due respect, comparing the act of manufacturing a hand hold, on an established free route no less, and the hindsight harm produced by "unclean" aid climbing is a bridge too far for me.
|
|
mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 09:11am PT
|
there was a time when chipping wasn't the abomination we now consider it to be...
I'd say that the sentiment on chipping and route enhancement has followed a more complex history:
* not worried about too much (up to late 60s)
* condemned pretty strongly by word at least (70s and early 80s)
* practiced more or less in the open by a minority on a fairly regular basis (late 80s to 2000s: sika, drilled pockets, etc.)
* is again mostly condemned, but is still present in the form of aggressive cleaning (boulder problems getting easier due to "brushing")
|
|
wannabeen
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2016 - 09:54am PT
|
Well, shortly after posting, I made a joke with my buddy that the thread would quickly devolve into a name calling, political, ethics, gun argument.
I definitely didn't forsee a chiseling discussion.
Interesting.
At the least, this is a bump.
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 11:38am PT
|
Yeah I think the name just has to do with some teensy granite flakes on a cliff called the Cookie. If It was manufactured they sure could've made 'em a little bigger! Think it's .12b or so and definitely a bit bouldery up on the arete at the top.
|
|
brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
|
Lets just go ahead and blame Sloan.
He chipped and chopped the route I personally guarantee it.
|
|
Edwardmw
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
|
brotherbbock, I would say it was not Sloan. He does not chop bolts off routes at the Cookie, in fact I have never seen Sloan at the Cookie in 15 years.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:46am PT
|
Anybody have any idea on why the route was chopped?
|
|
cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
|
One day, in the next decade. I would like to visit Yosemite.Anywhere there is a list of routes compiled where idiots have chipped their way upwards? I will avoid these routes.
|
|
wannabeen
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
|
Chips Ahoy was put up ground up, on lead, in the best style.
It is not chiseled, chipped or enhanced. This is a subject for another thread.
It's a mystery as to why it was chopped. People who climb the grade love it, and I can't imagine anyone climbing it, then chopping it.
If u want to make a statement about bolts, go big, chop all those dozens of bolts on the Salathe that have gone in since Robbins clambered up it. See what kind of response you'll get then.
Chopping an insignificant route at the Cookie is not much of a statement.
Tho I'd still slap the chopper in the nuts.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!