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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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At a minimum always bring a second rope on remote multi pitch routes.
Totally agree. Even if it's a thin-line, it gives you many options you don't otherwise have.
On routes like you described, particularly where you know that you may be out of earshot/eye-contact, it's well worth bringing a tiny walkie-talkie each. There's a huge element of not-knowing when you can't get a response to a yelled attempt at communication. Is your partner unconscious? Or is she simply unable to hear you? Can she hear you but is too wounded to yell back? Can she contribute ANYTHING to your self-rescue efforts? The questions go on and on. With electronic communications, you have better options to try to answer such questions.
Nothing is a silver-bullet, and devices can get damaged in an impact, of course. But I've found walkie-talkies extremely helpful on long pitches, even when they just make normal communication possible over the wind.
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overwatch
climber
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link it, yo!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv thanks, Mr. Stannard
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Use double ropes so you have more options, besides the drone and the phone.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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In all these sorts of scenarios it never hurts to have some rope soloing experience.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Since 99% of all the above is good advice... just lacking pix or diagrams
To the ExAcT scenario of the o.p.
Climber may be trying to make hard clip w/ drag... or trying to walk across a ledge... or is bleeding unconscious. .. or just chilling after a little fall...
So how about:
Let out rope Slowly... shout ...listen... lower..
repeat till response or sight or slacking of rope...
Then begin thinking of self-rescue. Maybe a good priority to get closest to partner, as make shift juggling sixty ft may take a LONG time, without lots of practice.
Please criticize
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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...without lots of practice...
Experience with various techniques counts in any scenario however you acquire it. Trying to self-rescue with no experience of any kind beyond belaying and climbing is going to be challenging.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Good thread.
Its one of the reasons KS and I frequently climbed with a double rope setup. That and we always had to do moderate routes with heavy rope frcition to accommodate my largess.
I had to self-rescue down 3 pitches with a female after rockfall wrecked her knee. Without 2 ropes, that task would have been nigh impossible. Especially since the rockfall basically severed one of the lines.
Even if you don't need 2 ropes for the climb, having a thin line in a knapsack with the powerbars isn't such a bad thing.
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John M.
Trad climber
Tempe, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2016 - 09:21am PT
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Many wise words above, and from the other thread linked...
A few more questions (for the exact scenario) **I agree we should have climbed with an additional line, and some sort of communication, like a beacon or sat phone. The fast and light thing certainly clouds sound safety judgement.
To me it seems like letting out some rope to hopefully get my partner to some sort of resting point above that bulge would be step one (and maybe, best case scenario, getting within shouting distance if she is conscious, or within eyeshot if not) after, yes, waiting a solid 5-10 minutes of inactivity and holding weight. No need to rush to any dire conclusions if communication could be obstructed by wind and distance.
Upthread, jstan said,
You have only 60' feet of rope so letting any of it out is a big decision.
My question is, what is the downside of letting out this rope? What options am I losing? Why is this such a big decision?
I probably have little to no gear on me aside from a cord, personal anchor of some sort, and a couple lockers, so to get off of a big route with a short rope, I am going to need a lot more gear. Essentially I am already committed to going up on a prusik and rope soloing, right? (assuming my partner is in fact unresponsive)
Is the only downside to letting out this initial rope that I am adding work for myself down the line since my partner is now further down from the piece that caught her?
This is where my logic starts to get foggy. Basically steps 5-10 on the other thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2274069&msg=2274164#msg2274164
It seems like I would just be giving up a few more pieces of gear since I wouldn't go as high up the route to get to her in elliot.will's procedure. (but this also confuses me, why couldn't I continue to prusik/solo above the injured climber to retrieve additional gear if it was needed?)
Thank you all for making this thread of high quality! It had a rocky start, ha.
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overwatch
climber
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you can use the back side of the rope, what they call the side tail, for many purposes including a substitute for slings you may be lacking and belaying yourself.
in fact with the Penberthy hitch you can transfer the load and escape the belay without any slings using the side tail
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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having to undo the rope from the anchor is probably the last and worst case scenario...
Johnm, I also wonder why not lower climber slowly... try to gain communication
If I was dazed in a fall, I wouldn't want to just be tied off...
Even if unconscious, better slumped on ledge?
Werner?
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overwatch
climber
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good post bear breeder and also in the other thread as well. I totally agree. does the addition of Blake and Hedden with the two hitches indicate a variation in the hitches themselves or is it just an alternative name?
I know the Penberthy and the Klemheist but I never heard those names added to it
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overwatch
climber
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so the first pic looks like the Klemheist/Mariner combo which I'm familiar with. as you said it is just upside down. There is actually no difference in how it is formed or am I missing something?
Thanks for the scoop on the Blake! Similar to the Penberthy but useful in more situations.
very cool and useful
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overwatch
climber
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okay man I get it now it took me a little bit. thank you that's awesome.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Thanks bunches bearbreeder, great friction hitches.
That last one should even work to use a too short guitar string
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Wow! Too cool... I've tried the zeppelin hitch, only works on low strings.
What do you think:
is lowering (presumed)injured, out of sight/communication leader to try and "ledge" them, and getting them closer to you a good protocol?
Most scenarios seem to imply simply tying-off an unknown injury
I once saw someone begin to lower haul bags onto the leader, leader runnout hand jamming the bottom of the stovelegs...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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I'm all for thinking through different accident situations, but has anybody out there ever been in this situation and self-rescued? For many years (athough not lately) I read all of the Accidents in North American Mountaineering reports (and I would recommend all climbers reading them). I can't remember a single party self-extracting from the situation the OP described.
Anyone have an actual example?
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CCT
Trad climber
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A good lesson here is that both partners should always bring their cell phones, keep them charged, and hope they work. Another lesson is the leader must not fall on run-out alpine trad, especially when out of site of their belayer.
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overwatch
climber
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I remember reading that full account, tragic and moving. I know it was a heavy loss around here.
To answer that question myself, I say better to know it and not need it than need it and not know it.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Anyone have an actual example?
Not exactly the same scenario, but Celia Bull's rescue of Paul Pritchard on the Totem Pole in Tasmania comes to mind. I don't remembers the exact details, but it involved a him sustaining a serious head injury from rock fall, her rigging a mechanical advantage to raise him to a ledge to stabilize him and go for help. He wrote a great book about the accident and his long recovery.
Don't need those skills often, but when you need them, you really need them.
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