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Burt
Social climber
Angelus Oaks, Ca
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Dec 28, 2015 - 08:38am PT
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First off calm down... If this is your only means of catching you during a solo fall then I would be more scared of your systems then your device. I had a SP break during a fall and went to my back up knot. No biggie. It was my fault (daisy got caught up in it and cross loaded it) RE was cool enough to split the difference with me for a new one. I didn't want anything for free or even a deal just wanted them to have the device to see if it could be repaired or for research. You climb long enough stuff happens. I've had cams break, or quit working, biners do the same. This stuff isn't meant to last forever and sometimes a piece will come out not working. Again, if you are relying on this this one product to keep you safe while soloing I would rethink your systems or maybe give up on the idea altogether. RE is a super cool company that makes prob close to zero on solo devices and climbing stuff but there tools are invaluable to climbers and if I had a bunch of bitchy ass climbers throwing my name in the mud before talking with me first it there would be a simple solution. Just shut that side of the company down. Just my .02c
Kurt Burt
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Dec 28, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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My issue was at 38F. My guess is that the grease inside can pool up and thicken somewhere critical. Mine was fairly new and had maybe a dozen pitches on it. After their service I could not reproduce the issue, but also could not get over my fears. So I sold it.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 28, 2015 - 08:52am PT
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About ten years ago mine acted up at the end of the day after aiding something in Jtree. In cold weather it would not lock up. I could rip an armful of rope through it with no locking. At home it was hard to replicate, but sticking it in the freezer for an hour in certain orientations would do it. I sent it back and they found a little grit past a rubber seal, and sent it back to me.
My issue was at 38F. My guess is that the grease inside can pool up and thicken somewhere critical. Mine was fairly new and had maybe a dozen pitches on it. After their service I could not reproduce the issue, but also could not get over my fears. So I sold it.
Wow... not to surprised to hear this. E-kat needs to chime in, she might remember more than I do.
I spent 30 years in the Bearing Business as an application engineer..... if I recall correctly, Mark was having problems with his cool invention not working very well in the cold. We spoke about what material he was using for the bearing.... he had a pretty standard hi-quality material that you can pick up from the supply houses. I was able to speak with some engineers at FAG, who knew much more about plain bearings than I did. They made some recommendations about the TYPE of Material, the TYPE of lubrication, the Finnish of the rubbing surface, and the fit of the shaft to the bearing. All of this added greatly to the cost of the unit. Mark being the ultimate craftsman that he is, incorporated these suggestions into his devise. I do remember the phone call... "success, you can store it in a deep freeze and it still works"...or some words to that effect.
I would not be surprised if this little bit of "black magic" has not been incorporated by the current owners. All manufacturers want to cut costs and its easy to think that something is way over spec when your looking at a bearing application.
I will be most interested to know how this develops.
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jonnyrig
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 09:02am PT
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It's a mechanical device.
All mechanical devices are subject to failure. When and where they fail varies.
You read the manual? Then you read about the backup knot requirement, in case of failure. You also read the part that states the device will not catch all falls. NO device, nor system, is 100% reliable, effective, or foolproof if you continue to climb.
That said, it does appear from your video that the device exhibited a failure. As such, contact Rock Exotica and send it in for service. Don't f*#k around climbing on it. If it's under warranty, they'll fix it. If it isn't, and they're a decent company (which they seem to be, based on what I've read) then they'll work something out with you.
If you still can't trust it, sell it. Incidentally, if you're placing that much faith in your mechanical devices (and your placements!) you're going to be surprised again some day. Maybe injured.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 28, 2015 - 09:24am PT
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Knowing people with social problems own silent partners, I bought one.
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overwatch
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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Also people who don't want to wait around for flakey partners
vvvvvvvv yes I would much rather climb with a partner just so I don't have to carry all that s h i t myself but when you want to go you got to go.
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Febs
Trad climber
Northern Italy
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2015 - 10:24am PT
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Good idea, just notified them.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 28, 2015 - 11:01am PT
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I would much rather climb with a partner just so I don't have to carry all that s h i t myself but when you want to go you got to go.
I'd forgotten just how heavy the extra load can be for an aid climb until I did some aid practice at the base of the Pacific Ocean Wall a couple of years ago. It felt like I was carrying 60 pounds and turned a straightforward approach with a human partner into something resembling a march to Golgatha carrying a cross.
Still, I find that soloing gives me adventure in a way nothing else can, and my SP has been a perfect companion in those situations. I do, however, look forward to hearing what Rock Exotica determines may have caused this.
John
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Dec 28, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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Old post better descibing my issue.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=998127;search_string=Silent%20partner;#998127
My standard for a belay device (solo or regular) is pretty high since failure means someone dies or gets hurt.
I climbed with my silent partner for about 10 months on a road trip. I used it when partners weren't forthcoming, or when I wanted to practice aid climbing (I didn't even think of torturing a partner for that crap). It was not heavily used, probably around 20 pitches (though often used for following as well as leading).
The last time I used it was a little over a year ago on a cold day(~45 F) for some aid practice in Jtree. When I came down and put my gear away it failed the spin test. I put a chunk of rope into it so I could really yard on it. Still it did not lock up. After much musing and spinning it started to lock up. First occasionally at high speeds, eventually every time at reasonable speeds. I was rather freaked to think back during the day when if I had fallen I would have died or been badly hurt had the SP not locked or had been slow to lock up.
Further tinkering showed it never has a problem with the thumb spin or rope test at about 55F or above. Below about 20F I've never gotten it to lock up. Try sticking your's into the freezer for an hour and play with it as it warms up. Mine is probably the one bad apple.
YMMV, but the lack of inspectibility and a failure to function properly for me made me a strong critic of it. I still need to get around to sending it back to Wren for an explanation. My motivation is low since I doubt I would ever climb with it again, even with a good explanation.
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overwatch
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 11:23am PT
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even if you aren't aid climbing you're still carrying the same gear that a two man team would carry plus the extra gear that is usually associated with rope soloing, the silent partner, rope bag, screamer with lockers on each end, etc.
then if a second rope is required the suckage has increased exponentially
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 11:52am PT
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Bottom line
It's been known for years it fails at cold lower temeratures.
You're supposed to use it in the warm times of the year.
If it's cold and it stops working during the morning test warm it on yer stove or just switch to lockers and clove hitch.
Maannnn ..... IMPROVISE, and stop whining ....
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overwatch
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
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I also have a soloist which is supposed to work on icy muddy frozen ropes any feedback on that Mr Braun? I have never tried it in those conditions and I thought it was just too fiddly so I switched to the SP.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
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which is supposed to work on icy muddy frozen ropes
If it doesn't work on icy muddy frozen ropes then use prusiks.
I've had to switch to klemheist prusiks during a winter rescue on El Cap because the ropes where encased in solid ice by the time we had to get out of there.
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Gunkie
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
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... lockers and clove hitch.
Here is my question for those who know or think they know or don't know but like to say they know:
Do you have to back up two identical lockers with a clove hitch?
I love using this method when on pure aid or just when a couple of free moves need to be busted out on occasion. However, I have always thrown a figure-8 on a bight 10-20 feet down the line and clipped that to another locker as a back-up. The truth is, the clove hitch across two locking biners clipped through leg loops and waist band on the harness will only fail at the knot making my back-up pretty useless aside from catching in a crack or flake or tree or superman grabbing it on the way down.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Dec 28, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
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Somebody give Whitemeat a heads up (I don't have contact info anymore).
I sold him mine a couple years ago, and I'd never heard anything about cold-weather malfunction despite owning it over a decade. So I doubt he's heard of this problem.
I never liked the thing, too bulky, too much PITA rope mgmt. When I want to climb alone, I minitrax or free solo.
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Febs
Trad climber
Northern Italy
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2015 - 02:26pm PT
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To those idiots writing things like the above or "devices can fail and it's normal that they do". Do you backup your gri-gri? Or any other belay device? No you don't. You expect them to work as long as you use them correctly, and they do. This one didn't despite I used it correctly. So please, shut the f*#k up.
This doesn't mean I will ever climb solo without backups - in the case of the SP they are also necessary for the rope to feed smoothly.
This means that the darn unit HAS to work when used according to instructions and here there are two people that had the same issue, which is big, especially since the user base of this thing is not that wide.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Dec 28, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
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...aside from catching in a crack or flake or tree or superman grabbing it on the way down.
If you ever meet Mark (inventor of the SP) ask him about his solos on Lost Arrow Direct (jugging "fixed" lines out of the notch that had been tampered with) and the Rostrum (something dropped him 10 feet while cleaning the roof pitch).
Both of these incidents were pre-SP
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 02:32pm PT
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This one didn't despite I used it correctly.
No you didn't. You didn't read the instructions.
You used it in cold weather where it has a tendency to fail.
Thus you have too much faith in technology.
I don't trust any gear.
All I hope for is my number ain't up while using it ....
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Febs
Trad climber
Northern Italy
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
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I did. I did read the manual and used it accordingly.
You, didn't read the manual nor the thread!
The manual states that the SP mustn't be used below freezing temperatures. I used it above freezing ones.
Can you read English? Do you know the difference between above and below? Did you read the SP manual before typing out junk?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 28, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
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I have one and read the manual.
I also know the inventor.
I also know it fails in cold weather sometimes due to reports from the field.
So you just took too much faith in the equipment like Mike originally said.
And yeah we don't expect sh!t to break/fail, but ..... it does, no matter how good the technology is.
It's a complicated piece of engineering with moving parts.
The idea in climbing has always keep it simple to minimize unforeseen problems.
The problems in the SP device are in a sealed encasement where one can not see .....
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