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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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What amazing stories!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Did they send?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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I want to hear ghost's polar bear escape story!
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Just got the email below from the ACMG's Mountain Conditions Report:
From: Public Mountain Conditions Report
To: mcr@informalex.org
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 12:43:59 -0700
Subject: [MCR] Area Closure, Mt Wilson, Banff National Park, Winter 2015-2016
Attention Ice Climbers on the Icefields Parkway!
A section of Mt Wilson is closed following an ice climber being bitten by a denning grizzly bear. This area will be closed for the winter to protect climbers and the bear. Although this was a very rare and unlucky encounter, it serves as a reminder that bears are still active (often until late December) and other animals stay active throughout the winter. Make lots of noise and keep your eyes open!
Details here: http://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/scond/cond_e.asp?oid=22162&opark=100092
Parks Canada Visitor Safety
Banff, Yoho, Kootenay National Parks | Parcs Natiounaux Banff, Yoho, Kootenay
http://www.parksmountainsafety.ca | www.parcsecuritemontagne.ca
edit - I appreciate Parks Canada for giving animals priority. Good management in so many ways.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Beautiful photos, Jim! TFPU!
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Tony
Trad climber
Pt. Richmond, CA
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Speaking of Polar Bears, how about this approach? Nikita Ovsyanikov was a leader on our Svalbard trip. He had spent many seasons on Wrangel Island studying Polar Bears and other wildlife. Most of the time he was solo with only a stick and pepper spray (only used once) to contend with the many bears frequenting the coast. Pretty badass! Here is some video footage. I’m disappointed that I couldn’t find the film resulting from his video taken over the course of one season.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nobody ever wants to hear my Polar bear story because it has a happy ending.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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My sister who lives in eastern B.C. near Nelson has had lots of bear problems and had a cougar in her barn recently also. She finally bought an electric fence to put around her chicken house that was guaranteed, she was told, to flip a grizzly.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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thats a gnarly incident.
its funny how many tales of bear 'incidents' happen in Japan.
i got nailed there by a black bear several years ago (maybe still the local hospital record for skin staples...woohoo - 163) so gained some insight into it.
over there black bears tally up about 150 attacks a year, whilst brown bears often zero. remoteness has little to do with it apparently (tho browns live in a more limited area), its attitude. blacks just go nuts as BASE states above.
probably a good thing as browns are almost double the size, grizzlies bigger i suppose, polars the next model again. any of them far outgun a human so if they dont kill its up to them.
beautiful and intelligent animals - from a safe distance.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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I recall the advice in (I think) some Canadian guides was similar to Base's: fight Black Bears, and play dead with Grizzlys (and here's where the advice differed) Unless the bear begins to strip flesh! (In which case you are dinner and might as well fight.)
Steve
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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I worked with a guy 40 years ago who told me a wild story involving a polar bear. Ron was working at the edge of the Beaufort Sea on a road testing project for the oil industry. They would build and test various road surfaces. A polar bear started hanging out near camp so they called in a govt biologist and small plane to dart and transport the bear.
The bear was darted and loaded into the plane. They had been flying for a while when the bear started to wake up! The biologist was unable to redart the bear. What do you do in a small plane with an unrestrained polar bear? They opened the door and pushed the bear out, sending it to its death.
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philo
climber
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That is solid info BASE104. TFPU.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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This may be the only topic on this place where I have more experience than anyone else posting here. I've spent many months alone in griz country, and have had a number of run-ins when alone. Normally they run away at top speed.
So. For those who go climbing in grizzly country, this is how it works:
These are GENERAL rules. Don't freak out just because you are going into griz country. If you have a gun, remember that you don't want to go shooting every grizzly who bugs you. They would run out of bears if everyone did that. I get a little pissed off every time I hear of an Anchorage dude shooting a bear. Often, both parties can walk away uninjured. It depends on your actions.
Where it gets spooky is when a bear charges you. Now I assume you are pointing a gun at it, but how you react is still the same. STAND YOUR GOUND, and often the bear will pull up short in what is called a bluff charge. Grizzlies are famous for bluff charging. So how do you know if it is a bluff or not? They run fast. Like a race horse for short distances. You don't really know until the bear stops.
The hard part of the question is: How close before I start shooting? I've let one charge me who stopped at 20 yards. Now, the Anchorage ass-wipes would probably shoot that bear 9 times out of 10. So how close is too close is very subjective.
First, in my time in Alaska, I never went anywhere without a 12 gauge loaded with slugs. The Native Indians and Eskimo's will think you are crazy if you go in there unarmed and alone. They always pack a gun. Basically, everyone has a firearm, including government biologists and researchers. I ran into a bunch of them studying ducks off the north coast once, and they all had been weapons trained. They were more worried about polar bears, as the ice was still fast to the shore, and they were out on a barrier island, where I was going to be picked up by my bush pilot after a 3 week solo float. Polar bears are entirely different than grizzlies. They might walk 10 miles upwind to check you out if they smell you, although they live off of ringed seals. A grizzly won't do this 99 times out of 100. If they smell you first, you will never see them...in remote wild areas.
Since bears pretty much never attack a group of 3 or larger, pepper spray is normally used on group outings, such as guided trips. Even then it is common for even a large group to have one firearm along..with everyone else packing pepper spray (which I've been told works), although it is constantly debated. Pepper spray is much better than nothing.
If it is a sow with cubs, it is better than average that it is a real attack. If you shoot her, though, she dies and so do her cubs, who will be quickly killed by any male grizzly that they come in contact with. If it is laying on a kill, it is also a bad situation, and the bear that came at me was, I later discovered, laying on a kill. I didn't shoot him, although the safety was off, a round was in the chamber, and I was beaded in on his chest. Fortunately he stopped at 20 yards, then circled me, chomping his teeth and acting pissed off, until he was downwind. At the point that he smelled me, he let out a loud snort and walked up the hill a ways and sat down. That was strange, because they normally run like a deer and are gone in a flash. So I walked over to where he had been laying, and found a half eaten caribou, covered with chunks of dirt and moss. They cover their kills up to keep the wolves from coming. Wolves will steal a kill from a bear. As it worked out, he pulled up short, I stood my ground, and both of us walked away uninjured. The best of all possible worlds.
The locals were impressed when I later told them the story. It is about as close as you can get to a thoroughly pissed off mature bear.
That begs the question again....How close is close enough to start shooting? I wish I had an answer. Probably 20 yards if he is super pissed off acting, and coming at you at top speed.
In the real wilderness, grizzlies don't run into many people, so they will often stop short if you hold your ground. I can promise you that if I had run, I would have gotten mauled. I stood tall and didn't move an inch. I am not particularly brave. I just did what I had been told to do, and it worked.
You would be surprised at what will happen if you just hold your ground. Since they are the apex predator, they don't expect that. They expect prey and every other animal to run. When you run, you are acting like prey. Don't be prey. Holding your ground makes them think twice..or something. All I know is that it works.
So in the above attack, first, the guy shouldn't have run. Fortunately, his friend kept his wits and came after it with a ski pole. Seeing two people was enough, and the bear left. Sorry about the leg, but it was a love tap compared to having your scalp ripped off. A bear is an incredibly strong animal, and they can kill you in one bite if so inclined.
I still don't know what time of year that it happened. They come out of their dens in the spring, when there is still snow, and that is the only thing I can think of when I saw the pic showing how high up they were when they had the encounter.
The exception to all of this is the Winter Bear. That is when a grizzly comes out of his den in mid-winter. He is starving and will attack anything. When that happens in Alaska, the bear is almost always shot at the first opportunity, especially if it is hanging around a village. Winter bears are a nightmare, from what I have heard.
I'm talking about instant decisions, though.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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^ Great information, BASE. The attack happened just a few days ago, on Nov. 29th, 2015.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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So how close is too close is very subjective.
Well, 20 yards is less than 2 seconds for a Griz at full tilt. You would
get one round, two at best, into him. Most of the time that won't cut it
unless it is very well placed. Yer choice. If he is still coming hard at
50 yards you're really rolling the dice as we're talking 5 seconds for the
rest of yer life.
My best friend up there had one charge him from 200 yds away on a big sand
bar. He was only 15 or 16 but born and raised. He took a knee, chambered
a round, sighted, and concentrated on his breathing. At 100 yds he started
his squeeze but the bear abruptly stopped. It must have sensed that he
was about to lose against this cool thinking kid with a 308.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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As with anything there are general rules but almost always a few exceptions. Generally, grizzlies make defensive attacks, defending cubs or a kill, or just if suddenly surprised, and will usually just punish and then go away, but are not anthropophagous (Just love that word!) There are, however, a few predatory griz. A few years ago a young couple hiking in Kluane NP were followed by a young griz - just followed, not charged. They kept walking away but he persisted. They didn't know what to do, so they decided to play dead. Mistake. Bear walked up and killed the woman, the man fled. Bear ate on the woman. Thought by biologists to be a young inexperienced bear who hadn't discovered what was proper prey - but they are guessing too.
Up in Denali a few years ago a photographer went well away from the road to photograph an adult male griz. Took repeated shots at fairly close range while the bear seemed to ignore him. Finally it charged, killed him - and ate.
Re bluffing charges, I have noted that they tend to come in sometimes much like an aggressive dog which is not quite sure of its advantage - body slightly quartering as in ready to spin around and retreat if needed, head and ears up and very alert, and often angling to get downwind as he or she comes in. Again, just some observations and certainly not rules. Others may have had entirely different experiences.
And there's a lot of question about whether a gun is better than pepper spray. Being able to place a disabling shot on an incoming, bounding griz at a couple seconds notice is not something everyone can do reliably, where the spray needs much less accuracy. And if it is after all a bluffing charge, then if you do hit you've killed a magnificent animal needlessly. And they take a LOT of killing when excited. I investigated a poached griz carcass in Denali which had been shot in the chest area three times with a .270 and three times with a 378 Weatherby magnum, which is essentially an elephant gun. If you only wing one coming in and it was a bluff to start with, you might really piss him off.
Oh yeah - the sound of gunshots don't often scare them either. I've shot in front of a incoming griz and he paid no attention whatever.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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I met a guy up on the North Slope who was a big bow hunter. There had been a bunch of caribou killing close to the haul road, and he went up there with his bow to get one feeding on the gut piles. He took along a partner with a .44mag pistol for safety.
He killed it with one shot. The bears are much smaller that far north, and an adult may weigh only 250 lbs. This bear was in that range.
He skinned it on the spot and described its muscles, which were then plainly visible. He said it looked like a WWF wrestler on steroids. An extremely strong animal.
I've come across bears where I see them before they see me. The treeless northern arctic is like that. I NEVER try to sneak around the bear. I don't want to worry that it is following me, although the odds are small. Still, when they are really hungry, bets are off.
I just yelled at it, got its attention, and it stormed off through some scrub willow until out of sight. It gave me the right of way.
I did travel another 5 or 6 miles that evening and found a flat spot to camp a few hundred feet up the side of the valley, but I never saw it again. That year I had a number of bear encounters, even on the same day. After I crossed the pass to the North Slope, I didn't see another bear for the rest of the trip. I saw plenty of sign, but didn't spot a bear.
That is hungry country up there, and the bears have a short feeding season vs. a long hibernation. I would always examine the scat. Normally it was full of berries or grasses. I think that I ran into one old scat near a kill that had a bone in it as big as your fist.
Really, if you let the bears scare you from even visiting, you will miss some amazingly beautiful country. You are far more likely to die in a car wreck than at the hands of a grizzly. Even up there.
It is wild how much bigger the southern bears are compared to the arctic ones. That elderly couple up on the Hula Hula river were attacked in their tent, killed, and partially eaten by time a guide I know happened upon their camp, which had been ripped to shreds. They shot the bear, and it was about a 250 lb. male that was 12 years old.
That is the rarity. A totally predatory attack. They do happen, particularly among the history of Yellowstone and Glacier NP's.
I was always tired, and after dinner conked out cold. Worrying about bears is a waste of time in those areas. Yellowstone or Glacier on the other hand, where habituated bears are in places frequented by humans, may very easily see humans as prey. That is why hiking in Yellowstone freaks me out far more than sleeping in griz country, even on salmon streams, where they are congregated.
Polar bears. Never saw them, but I've seen some huge tracks along the coast, and sleeping there is a little freaky. I've heard conflicting info on how to deal with them. Supposedly there was an Asian researcher who studied them for most of his life. He carried a little stick, and if they got out of hand, he would whack them on the nose with it. He encountered a lifetime of polar bear experiences and got away with the little stick every time. Of course he knew their behavior inside and out. They mainly feed off of ringed seals, and tossing your camp close to the beach, with seals sunning a hundred yards out from the beach, well, it did cause me to lose a little sleep.
As to the electric fences. I've heard that they work. You can power them with small solar outfits.
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