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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 10, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
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Our women can certainly take the enemy's men, whether they can hang with our men or not.
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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especially for people who think the sexes only differ in their physical makeup.
Good point L.
Case in point, I am very happily married but my wonderful Wife repeatedly asks me to not get detailed when I tell her some of the shet I endured as I do periodically when going through my head shet episodes.
From my observations, Women in general can't put the shet behind em when it is happening and carry on very effectively as men seem to have the ability to.
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Sep 10, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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You know, you're gonna just hate this Chaz...but the Dali Lama is quoted as saying:
"The world will be saved by Western Women."
I don't think he was alluding to our prowess on the battle field or with six shooters....
Edit: I totally know what you mean, Chief. I'm waaaaaay more sensitive than my husband on so many levels....and thank god he isn't as sensitive as me, or we'd never get anything accomplished...we'd just "talk" about it endlessly. :-) (Kinda joking there....kinda not.)
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Sep 10, 2015 - 06:28pm PT
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Why thank you, Locker.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
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I totally agree with you that females as a rule don't have what it takes to be murderous, violent and blood thirsty like men do.
Well we could start by forming some all women units and since they naturally synchronize when living in close quarters we could have whole platoons on PMS with guns. That would put the fear of Allen in them. ;-)
We were having a post climbing discussion Sunday about the other thread. (dumbing down of climbing)
To your earlier point on big climbs as combat, had a conversation with Bridwell a few years ago and mentioned that above a certain level climbers are just warriors with no war to fight. His eyes lit up and he went into an animated description of how when he's used that simile in a slide show in europe it brought howls of protest from the rather pacifist crowd.
That's where we started, then it occurred to me that maybe there was a cultural reason that there seems to be a disproportionate number of Asian women that lead at a high level or boldly.
There are no western woman specific martial arts. Western warrior women are incredibly rare in folklore. Not so in Japan. (not familiar enough with china or india to know about those cultures) There's a whole tradition of using the Nagatana. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-bugeisha
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
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A friend that had supposedly seen some severe fire fights in Nam said the worst (for them) encounter they ever had was with a group of all female VC. His group roamed with impunity and left calling cards, in other words they were badass, but these women put them in their place!
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:07pm PT
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Thanks L for your input. Makes good sense from what I have personally experienced both here at the Homefront, and from the six courageous young female Shipmates that gave 110% of what they were capable of on a daily basis.
Unfortunately, all six asked to be transferred from our Division and be removed from the volunteer program to work with us. All for the exact same reason.
"This job totally sucks Chief and is way too fked up for me. It's far more than I ever imagined it would be."
And they were just working on the flight deck of a carrier, 24/7.
Again all Six had a bigass heart of gold. But, they knew their limitations.
It would be interesting to see if either one of the Branches actually musters up a unit/team strictly of Females and how they would do in a real world scenario as such.
His group roamed with impunity and left calling cards, in other words they were badass, but these women put them in their place!
Those Females VC were born, raised and trained from a very young age in North Vietnam to do so. It was all part of the North Vietnamese Militia program. None of those females had a choice to pertain to those units. These all female units exist in PRC and Russia today. Again, they do not have a choice and are bred from day one to be.... Warriors.
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
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The thread title is flawed...
More actual studies are being conducted, LOcker.
Ranger School is tough.
BUT it is no where near what BUD/S, GB, DELTA, FORCE RECON and PJ training entails. That is the SPECOPS that is referred to in the "thread title". And them brave young women need to complete that prior to even thinking of moving on and getting Pinned and Cert'd in real world ops.
LOcker, do you even have the slightest clue as to what one endures for 26 weeks at BUD/S? Not even to mention the six ruthless days of "Hell Week".
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:25pm PT
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In regards to combat/warfare, are y'all talking about today or the tomorrow's? What will this ugliness look like in the future? I think it is hard to tell who will man up to it in the best way for the outcome of their side as opposed to the outcome of their gender
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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Nice proposition in your thread title - now you just need to prove it to yourself. I have faith in us that we can do it!
My 8 yr old daughter will kick your son's ass, but we're trying to socialize that out of her. Sorry that you're not trying to do the same for your son. :-)
Hmm I wonder who started that conflict that you manly men with your above average climber intelligence had to fix? Prolly some purse swinging man .. sh#t I can't remember the rest of the insult! But we can trust we adult manly men climber intelligent types to demonstrate our adventurousness and intelligence by calling each other names :-) Have at it!
Let's let the oil companies do the research on global warming, and then sit back and admire ourselves for our intelligence for believing them when they tell us that it doesn't exist. Humans ... :-)
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
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My Kids, Daughter and two Sons, are in the mid to late 30's Rbord.
And wtf does your post have to do with the REALITY of getting through the primary training of becoming a SPECOP's Operator in today's modern US Military per the recent study that the OP is based on.
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
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Couldn't be ANY worse than dealing with you...
Where do you think I learned to be such a ...
This is just the first day (11-16 hours a day) of six months.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
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Environment plays a role. What if we start raising our daughters to be blood thirsty killers from the start? Plenty of strong muscle bound women out there... add in some new age exoskeletons in a few decades...
The point is that a mind and its desires and values are pliable with enough repitition, regardless of gender
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
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Plenty of strong musclebound women out there.
Has maybe 25-30% to do with succeeding at any of the SPECOPS training courses. 65-75% is ALL mental and the will to succeed.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
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so that makes my point about the mental aspect even more
all minds are pliable
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:50pm PT
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Didn't you volunteer knowing what was ahead of you (Or at least a basic idea)???...
Yup.. I already had ten years (seven deployments, two crashes etc etc) in when I went to BUD/S. So I was more than prepared. Mentally.
Plus I wanted to be there.
Pliable, yeah, your mind gets really pliable the first week at BUD/S. Then comes Hell Week when your mind says, fk it, stfu, take the pain and suffer, MOFO!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
And somehow you believe that Women have less desire and will to succeed???...
Oh not one bit. They just seem to think emotionally far too much. You just can't think in that manner in this shet.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
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Has maybe 25-30% to do with succeeding at any of the SPECOPS training courses. 65-75% is ALL mental and the will to succeed.
i take it you dont like women and you sure as hell dont know them too well, do you chief?
its ok, lots of navy guys are that way, in fact, its ok to be that way these days
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The Chief
climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
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I don't like women... that's funny.
No, I just have experienced the reality of the OP. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with liking or not liking.. women.
Do YOU personally support their effort and desire to try???...
100%!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
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Sep 10, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
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Hawkeye...It's bad luck having women on ships...settle down...
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 10, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
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Chief the reality is that we socially condition our kids according to their gender (among other things) and when we get down the road, if what we see is the result we've conditioned ourselves to expect, and conditioned them to perform, whoopdeedoo! what does that have to do with the reality of the actual differences between the genders? We socially condition our kids depending on their genders, and then we continue socially conditioning those adults who haven't been socially conditioned the "right way" (can Warbler say "man swing purse toter" or ... hell I'll let him say - he's a self proclaimed intelligent adventurous manly climber with much better skills at imposing social conditioning than I have ..).
Men have a penis and women have a vagina, that much is for sure, but if men can become purse swinging man toters, what can women become, if we don't saddle them (and ourselves) with our inescapable social expectations? Me I'd like to see, but many people prefer the status quo, so we continue to prove to ourselves that the socially conditioned gender differences are innate.
150 years after slavery and white median wealth is still 13 times higher than black median wealth? How long will it take for us to recognize the commonalities of men and women? I'm not holding my breath :-)
Hey congrats on raising your kids :-) Didn't mean that specifically to you, more generally about daughters and sons.
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