Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 09:17am PT
|
mama (the female gender here in general) knows best, as they say.
still, if it were some regular on this site that threatened that and folks knew them on here id love to be part of the outing party. i bet a guy like radical would like to partake as well.
i hope jerks like that are reading this. if other males received that type of behaviour you can bet that there would be more violence in the world and rightly so.
damn it, i did it again. i need to go meditate and pray for our lost brethren i guess....
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 09:25am PT
|
I guess since the references in this thread are regarding a specific person, it would be helpful to know where along the spectrum of "1-Dorky-guy-trying-to-get-girl to 10-Scary-sicko-making-threats" this individual was.
That way folks don't make unduly harsh assumptions now that 'things are alleged,' and also so his behavior can be appropriately addressed for the sake of the cyber-rock-goddesses everywhere.
Peace
Karl
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 09:34am PT
|
karl,
you are correct. my anger showing up above is specific to a male who may have sent a violent message to a female. it is not for MtnMan.
if one of the posters here sent a violent rape email to me i must admit, i would probably deal with it in a manner not suited to posting here.
i do not know what MM did but if it was harmless mp3, love poems that is a totally different thing than telling a woman how you are going to rape them. someone that sick needs a dose of justice that is more easily understood than forgive and forget...
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 09:40am PT
|
I didn't mean to imply that MM sent the rape emails. Fact is, I have no idea who that was. The receiver wouldn't tell me who sent them.
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 10:11am PT
|
WTF? What is all of this “behind the scenes” crap? I’ve shared a few e-mails with people off of Supertopo, but just the standard fare – what’s up with the on-line stalker BS. This is the only online forum or blog or anything of the sort I participate in, but this is the last place I’d expect something like that to happen.
Sorry Crimper, but not wanting to go public because of the potential fallout is BS in my opinion. Girls that refuse to report rape to the authorities help keep rapist on the streets. I think this type of crap, no matter how ugly, needs to be exposed and dealt with (as do the perpetrators).
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 10:24am PT
|
I respect your opinion and understand it.
But I will say, that my own experience is that going forward brings far more trouble than dealing with it behind the scenes does. Is that ideal? No. Is that reality? Yes.
And to think I make a living as a person who researches this sort of stuff. Is there any surprise that at best, 1/3 of women who are victims of a completed rape tell the police? No. Why? Because they've learned what that reporting will bring them - a lot of grief, finger-pointing, humiliation, etc.
The rape example I brought up is atypical, luckily. I am curious if you think that women should go forward with other types of moronic treatment? For example, should we go public everytime a married guys tries to hook up with us?
Do I see a show of hands out there for guys wanting the females to go public for this sort of stuff? Doubt it. Some of the guys that do this stuff would likely surprise many of you guys out there!
Again, the vast majority of people here are super cool most all of the time. We are talking about a very small percentage of behavior.
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 10:46am PT
|
The rape example I brought up is atypical, luckily. I am curious if you think that women should go forward with other types of moronic treatment? For example, should we go public everytime a married guys tries to hook up with us?
Moronic treatment is part of life, regardless of your sex (how many unsuspecting guys have been strung along by a girl whose only intention is to use them for whatever they can get out of them and then leave them broken-hearted?) I’m guessing the married guy that’s always trying to “hook up” will reap what he sews. Someday his wife will find out, divorce his ass, take him to the cleaners and he’ll be eating tuna out of a can in a studio apartment in Lennox for 10 years.
Unless he ends up infecting her with an STD, no real “crime” (at least from a violent standpoint) has taken place.
Rape is a violet crime. Sex crimes IMO should be eligible for the death penalty. Especially crime against children.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 10:56am PT
|
You bring up another good point. Moronic behavior comes from males and females. Moronic behavior is a human trait.
I only said what I did earlier because there was a question about "anonymous females" and why they don't come forward. Thought I might be able to offer a little insight to those that were curious. I don't claim that my way is the way, the only way, the best way, etc. It is just one person's opinion on why some females remain anonymous, and won't go public.
|
|
Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 11:00am PT
|
"Rape is a violet crime. Sex crimes IMO should be eligible for the death penalty. Especially crime against children."
And not just any death.
Drawn and Quartered.
Forced ropeless ropejumps.
Gallagher-style hammer to the ole brain bucket.
Just a start....
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 11:06am PT
|
crimper,
the sure cure for the married man thing is to tell them that next time they do that you will call the wifey and let her know.
in the rape email example, it is highly adviseable that someone else know about it because who knows if the guy is sick enough to carry it out? the only trouble i see that it can raise for the woman is if she were not totally clean to begin with. i suppose that begins the vicious ugly circle that you may be referring to. unless i am missing something.
regardless, writing a threatening email describing how a woman is to be raped really needs more attention than burying it in the dirt.
edit: glad i aint the only guy who gets pissed and wants to proceed with violence. hehe
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 11:12am PT
|
I understand that as a female you have a perspective that I can’t necessarily understand.
A couple of months ago my wife said something that kind of drove that point home for me. When discussing how “safe” a city in South America was, I had mentioned that I felt 100% safe walking around alone at night. I told her I’d feel perfectly comfortable letting her and our daughters live down there sans Dad for a month or so at a time. She explained to me that as a woman, you can never feel 100% safe walking around ANYWHERE alone at night. I had never really thought about it from a woman’s point of view before, but I can definitely imagine how a woman might feel in a situation where I’d need to revert to my “biker bar” persona just to walk down a particular street.
From a man’s standpoint though you need to understand this instinct to protect, especially what we often view as the “weaker” sex. (Although any man that’s witnessed childbirth knows the truth about that). We (speaking for most men) don’t like to see this kind of BS swept under the rug . We rather round up the posse and have us a good ol’ ass-whooping session.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 11:28am PT
|
With the caveat that nobody is accusing MM with anything worse than been boorish and inappropriate to the max...
Here's why women don't report rape in Pakistan:
" A woman who fails to prove that she has been raped is automatically charged with fornication and adultery. Under the Hudood law, she is considered guilty unless she can prove her innocence. Proof of innocence requires that the rape victim must produce “at least four Muslim adult male witnesses, about whom the court is satisfied” who saw the actual act of penetration. Inability to do so may result in her being jailed, or perhaps even sentenced to death for adultery."
sigh
from
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1013-32.htm
Peace
Karl
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 11:32am PT
|
Kind of a stretch there isn’t that Karl? Luckily we don’t have that same burden of proof here in the States.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 12:49pm PT
|
Hardmann knott thought he knew how to cast,
But the fishes were still swimming past,
So he put in a call to jody,
And the st peeps went yippee!
But poor mountain man may not be back,
Cuz nature or anachro attacked!
But the community looked in the mirror,
And decided to buy MM a beer.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 01:38pm PT
|
Is someone posting as his sister?
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 01:42pm PT
|
Our host does sometimes step in. At least once and perhaps twice in the last week he has removed threads. I'm sure Chris had good reasons for doing so, bearing in mind that his concerns may not be the same as ours. Sometimes his forebearance astounds me. We could do a better job of self-policing, IMHO, although the sociologists may feel that their experiment in the (non) evolution of self-government is going just fine.
I believe that Chris will revoke ST posting privileges, either for abuse of same, or for otherwise offensive behaviour. Such as stalking, by whatever name. There can be a subjective element to the latter, but evidence can be obtained - e-mails, even recorded calls. That doesn't prevent someone from lurking, or making nasty calls or e-mails using information already acquired. Or acquiring another e-mail persona. But it's a start. Perhaps publicizing the revocation would help - I hear that's done on other forums.
It's good that there are also informal defense mechanisms - the jungle telegraph. The quality of the underlying information is important, though, something ST mob justice sometimes overlooks.
Crimpergirl is right - there are significant social and legal barriers to proving these things, and getting any justice. Getting beyond a reasonable doubt evidence, and persuading the authorities to do something about it, can be difficult. Especially if several jurisdictions are involved. Often not a real world solution, unfortunately.
Does anyone remember the scene in The Hobbit, where the trolls have caught Thorin and the dwarves? They then argue about whether to roast them, mince them, or boil them. Or maybe all three. The "what to do with stalkers" discussion seems to be gravitating in that direction.
Anders
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 01:56pm PT
|
"For example, a current female poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) received some emails from a male poster who did not like her posts. In these emails, he described gruesome detail how he wanted to violently rape and physically assault her. Think it would be a good thing for her to do to post it? Would that endanger her? If just posting regularly earns people awful emails, why would they be inclined to post stuff calling someone out?"
are you f*#king serious?
i think it's a significant dis-service to the community at large to keep something that significant under wraps. the intimidation is exactly what that sort of individual is counting on. sending an email like that has got to be a crime in itself. i for one would be very interested in knowing the specifics of that story.
|
|
TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 02:05pm PT
|
i for one would be very interested in knowing the specifics of that story.
We know. You thrive on stories of prurient interest. :-)
Check your tabloid. You must have missed it.
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2006 - 02:33pm PT
|
It seems as though this exact subject rears its ugly head every year or so. I can recall a prolific poster of days gone past that was “virtually brutalized” over similar accusations. That whole thing blew over largely to an offsite PR campaign launched by the accused.
I’ve said some stupid things on this forum (as many of us had), but treats like those (especially sent via private e-mail, or otherwise via a private communiqué) should MINIMALLY be brought to the attention of the site host so that user can have their privileges revoked and (if necessary) the information can be turned over to the proper authorities.
What about someone sending another user links to child porn (as has previously been accused), should that be ignored?
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2006 - 04:12pm PT
|
1)you busted Ouch how? IP addresses. I figured it only be a matter of time before you put two and two together and got four. Guess not.
Knott. Ouch busted himself. There are only a small handful of people who have ever
posted ROTFLMAO!. Comparing writing styles in that small pool was fairly simple.
However, I was never 100% sure. I tried to bait him into giving himself up, but he
didn't take the bait. You, on the other hand...
Looks like Apoc had a clue.
Well, I never saw that thread. Honestly, I wasn't even thinking about who started
the MM thread. I was too busy enjoying the soap opera. But when Jody brought up
the "who is this guy hiding behind the skirt", I thought it would be fun to mess with
him. I really didn't think he (you) would cave so fast. 3 minutes is precious indeed.
Speaking of IPs and logs, weren't you the one who wrote this:
I would look at the time stamp on the posts from the people that i believe to be the same. I would then log into (SSH in) the webserver that hosts the site and dig through the web log. I would look for http POST entries (these correspond to when you post/update) and I would find the ones with the dates that match the posts I'm intersted in. When I find them I will then see the IP addresses. Even with that, if they had dialed up, there is still a chance the IP would be different even if the person is the same.
and a few posts down in that thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=47552&msg=47585#msg47585
This is just the last ten lines of a small weblog. Maybe only 10000 lines. supertopo probably has good million entries per week.
Have fun parsing through that!
Are you aware that the ST log adds up to several gigabytes each day?
In any event, I have access to the server to upload photos. Not only do
I knott know how to SSH in to see the logs, you yourself confirmed it would
be a monumental task to try to track individual posts and IP's.
Again, you caved in three minutes flat...
(including the time it took to read my post and type your response)
LOL!
Oh... and those two beers you owe me... you can keep 'em.
That's knott being a very good sport, is it? Even though I don't know you that well,
I still consider(ed) you a friend - and we have mutual friends. But hey, that's your call.
The bottom line is that you were so upset by Mountain Man's blatent trolls, that you
Googled up four-year old dirt on the guy - and totally smeared him. He evidently paid
the price, whatever it was. I mean come on, when someone calls you an America-hater
or a Satan-worshipping Commie, do you really take that shít personally? I think most
of us just roll their eyes. BTW, virtually all my friends are way-liberal, and call me "Bush-lover"
or "right-winger" because I happen to be a bit right of center (at least compared to them).
I just laugh. Same as when I used to engage in political stuff here. I laughed then, too.
Maybe you shouldn't take things so seriously - especially when provoked by a kook?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!