Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
|
|
Aug 10, 2015 - 10:17am PT
|
But since it's the feds, all is well and quiet. Even though they lied about the spill and it's three times bigger than they claimed. They're also the ones that changed the claim when they realized it was wrong. They were also the ones there trying to fix a century of abuse by private companies. Perhaps you should educate yourself before pointing the finger at 'Big government'. If the locals had allowed the area to receive Superfund status this situation wouldn't exist today.
http://www.hcn.org/articles/when-our-river-turned-orange-animas-river-spill
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Aug 10, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
|
You mean the spin?
this wasn't caused by local resistance to anything.
EPA screwed the pooch with incompetent engineering and no "could'a would'a Should'a" spin changes that.
|
|
i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 12:03am PT
|
this wasn't caused by local resistance to anything. Never said it was caused by local resistance. But it would have been prevented decades ago without the local resistance. It was caused by decades or centuries of mining. This is a scenario that is playing out all over Colorado and the west.
The EPA was the trigger in this instance and I don't think anyone is saying they don't bear a large part of the responsibility for this spill. But the mines there have been slowly (and at times much more rapidly than this instance) destroying the ecosystem for over 40 years and the EPA was the only one currently trying to fix it. That's why it's bullshit to call for jail time here when in the cases of private companies causing spills there is typically only jail time involved when negligence is proven.
|
|
timy
Sport climber
Durango
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 07:36am PT
|
So the guys in the kayaks were there as the plume came past. They didn't know what was going on. Just so ya know that.
If the locals had allowed the area to receive Superfund status this situation wouldn't exist today.
Exactly. Silverton is run by right-wing extremists. They consistently run good people out of their little wife beater sanctuary. They might claim they didn't want Superfund status because it would hurt tourism, but they will blow up anyone who doesn't fit their ideals.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:04am PT
|
The same morons that caused this disaster would have been the ones running it as a superfund site. The only difference is a cliché designation.
What makes you think they wouldn't have produced the same result with a different program title?
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:15am PT
|
Couple issues here. A long history of mining that's lead to significant contamination in the area. Happening there, happening here in Nevada, happening over in the great state of California.
And, as quoted in Gumby's article, the cavalier attitude of the EPA in their "investigation" or attempted abatement of the issue. Near as I can tell, everyone's downplaying their involvement and responsibility in the current release. Accountability is significant in this day and age, and I'm not seeing it in regard to this event. Given the past history of blockage and subsequent inundation of neighboring mines to the point of contaminated water flowing from other portals, the EPA should have been better prepared in their "investigation" into the seepage coming from this mine. I suspect that in the future they will not have such a cavalier attitude toward investigation of other mine drainage in the area. Or, at least, they'd better not. In any case, this event sounds like it should have been foreseeable, given the past history in the area, and whoever was involved in approving the plan of operation for this thing should at a minimum require some new training and bear some responsibility for what's happened here. Unlikely we'll ever hear about that though.
I also disagree with the policy of holding every previous owner of sites like these responsible for contamination and cleanup. They do the same thing with prior owners of things like gas stations, where chemicals have leached into surrounding soil. It's fair to hold accountable current owners, and previous owners as well, who do NOT follow required procedures and design specifications that prevent contamination; but to back-charge previous owners for contamination when they were conducting themselves within the law amounts to a form of tyranny in my opinion. That would be like charging you, personally, for contaminating the environment by having previously owned a home with lead paint or asbestos siding. It's bullsh#t. And it's evidence that we're slowly relinquishing our individual rights in furtherance of a public safety society that doesn't quite fit the whole balanced model we like to think our country exemplifies.
In any case, let's hope they get this particular area some Superfund status, and a long-term, effective cleanup operation. As addressed in the article, private companies, unless extremely large and profitable, often lack the funds and engineering ability to sustain long-term operations. Can't figure out why some brilliant mining company hasn't yet figured out a profitable (or at least economic enough to offset mitigation costs) way to recover the metals dissolved in this kind of mine drainage.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 10:13am PT
|
This is not something to be taken lightly. The environmental /economic consequences are large.
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 10:17am PT
|
Well, you know... vs 894 posts about a dead lion.
Whoops! Just dropped to 740 posts. Apparently Ron got the chop again.
|
|
i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 11:03am PT
|
What did he say this time?
|
|
timy
Sport climber
Durango
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
|
So what is your solution TGT? Do nothing and let our river be poisoned at a slower rate but continuously? It might have been the same morons running it, but a Superfund designation would have allowed FUNDS and different engineering as opposed to stopgap measures and low bid contractors. They had a water treatment system but couldn't afford to keep it running.
Anyway, seems like fish and fish food survived the initial plume. They are still testing and are talking about opening the river (rafting and such).
https://www.facebook.com/ColoradoParksandWildlife/videos/944865468909613/
Again, we can lichen this to the climate change argument. We can ignore the problem for a while but that's really not the best option. It is happening and it should be everyone's first priority.
Except to go climbing, of course.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
Aug 11, 2015 - 01:18pm PT
|
IN the government - this gets you promoted
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 01:09am PT
|
^^^^^ what he said,
will this affect Cache Creek Casino?
all you need to do is dump 19,000 gallons of metam sodium in that creek, and it will clean the banks like an SOS pad,
you can build it with this blueprint>
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 04:44am PT
|
Ho, hum....
Yawn.
Dead yellow rivers are the "norm" here in Appalachia, thanks to "Clean Coal."
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
|
The EPA is trying to cheat Navajo Indians by getting them to sign away their rights to future claims from the agency’s Gold King Mine disaster, tribal officials charged Wednesday, adding more to the administration’s public relations problems over the spill that threatens critical Southwest waterways.
EPA officials were going door-to-door asking Navajo, some of whom don’t speak English as their primary language, to sign a form that offers to pay damages incurred so far from the spill, but waiving the right to come back and ask for more if their costs escalate or if they discover bigger problems, Navajo President Russell Begaye told The Washington Times.
“It is underhanded. They’re just trying to protect their pocketbook,” Mr. Begaye said in a telephone interview.
Mr. Begaye has already promised a lawsuit on behalf of the Navajo Nation, and said he suspects the EPA is trying to buy off as many Navajo as possible now to head off a bigger settlement later.
The spill has dumped millions of gallons of polluted water into the Animas River, which feeds the San Juan river and eventually the Colorado River, which provide water for grazing and crops in much of the Four Corners area, which is the confluence of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah. The Navajo Nation covers much of that territory.
The EPA did not have an immediate comment on Mr. Begaye’s charges Wednesday.
Rep. Rob Bishop, chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, said through a spokeswoman that he’s heard the complaints from the Navajo Nation and will be investigating the entire disaster.
“Chairman Bishop is outraged at the reports that the EPA is asking tribal members to sacrifice their rights after EPA’s ineptitude has potentially threatened their health and livelihoods,” spokeswoman Julia Bell Slingsby said. “People are suffering because of EPA negligence and yet the federal government’s response is not to help, but to engage in grasping for legal cover before the full extent of damage is known to Navajo farmers.”
She said the EPA would come down hard on a private party who tried the same tactics, and demanded to know why the Interior Department, which has oversight of Indian affairs, hasn’t come to the aid of the tribes.
Mr. Begaye said the situation is all the more enraging because the EPA has admitted it will take decades to clean up the spill, yet the agency is pushing for Navajo to calculate their costs now and sign away their rights for the future.
He also said EPA workers have said there are other mines that could also face similar problems, and said the priority should be on fixing those and cleaning up the current spill, which is still flowing, rather than trying to deflect liability.
“Our leadership from the White House — it’s almost nonexistent. And now they’re asking us to waive all of this stuff, and the yellow water is still flowing into the river, nothing has been contained,” he said. “It’s just a huge — I don’t want to use the word coverup, but it’s just government not doing its job, causing all of this to happen to our people, our land, our economy.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/12/indians-say-epa-trying-swindle-them-mine-spill/
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
|
This horrible disaster (and untold others just like it) would never have happened if the EPA didn't exist.
|
|
timy
Sport climber
Durango
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
|
So what is your solution TGT? (and apogee)Do nothing and let our river be poisoned at a slower rate but continuously? It might have been the same morons running it, but a Superfund designation would have allowed FUNDS and different engineering as opposed to stopgap measures and low bid contractors. They had a water treatment system but couldn't afford to keep it running.
Anyway, seems like fish and fish food survived the initial plume. They are still testing and are talking about opening the river (rafting and such).
https://www.facebook.com/ColoradoParksandWildlife/videos/944865468909613/
Again, we can lichen this to the climate change argument. We can ignore the problem for a while but that's really not the best option. It is happening and it should be everyone's first priority.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
|
timy...my last was intended as TGT sarcasm.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Aug 12, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
|
Engineering screw-ups happen all the time, but that has more to do with engineering than whether private industry or government was running the job.
The problem here, though, isn't the EPA's screw-up, it's antiquated mining laws which have always favored resource extraction and were explicitly written to allow the industry to abandon mines (and their associated waste).
It's all about the money. If the mining industry had to actually mine with some care about the environment or remediate mining sites after the extraction was done then lots of mines, and the business in general, wouldn't be nearly as profitable. The abandonment and remediation 'laws' are all about rape it and leave it for someone else to deal with.
The people, estates and corporations who have profited from this mine, introduced and abandoned the toxic brew are the responsible parties, who should be blamed, and who should be footing the cleanup costs.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|