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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 28, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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how much worse can it get for them?
A lot and, if they don't come to their senses, it will, soon. They haven't seen anything yet.
Voting that lot of sheep-buggering prevaricators in only proved the depth of their collective
delusion. They act like they're doing the Germans a favor by taking their largesse. Very sad.
They're headed down the exact same road as Argentina.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 28, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
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"Kinda commenting on the craziness of the world..." -donini
and to think it all starts innocently enough... upon the imperative to procreate.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jun 28, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
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A lot
I suppose.. they are a bringing a one armed fistfighter to a nuclear gunfight. Probably not gunna end well...
Unless you have the balls for it.
Freedom is never free.
Can you explain what this "money" is Reiley... I mean that sincerely.. I really do NOT understand international finance and artificial currency .. uhmm why not just say.. boom here is 279 Billion dollars we created by spending 10 seconds on the computer???
Boom no more debt issue. Get back to work now.
I can understand avoiding rampant inflation.. I doubt that is the risk at the moment however.
We kinda did that during our little mortgage fiasco a few years back.
What is Germany and the rest of the EU trying to gain by this adherance to painful austerity and debt? What is more important to them than financial stability...
something is. But it aint the general population.
I dont think 279 billion (or the much lesser sum of the due payment) is gunna cause rampant inflation in a multi trillion dollar eu economy.
What is the eu trying to accomplish such that they are willing to risk this crap greece and now the world is looking at?
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jstan
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
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10-Year U.S. Treasury yield drops 17 basis points
TOKYO, JUNE 29
The benchmark U.S. Treasury yield dropped 17 basis points in early Asian trade on Monday as Greece staggered closer to defaulting on its debt repayment and Athens imposed capital controls on its banks.
The yield on the U.S. 10-year note was last at 2.309 percent, compared with its U.S. close of 2.476 percent on Friday. (Reporting by Lisa Twaronite; Editing by Paul Tait)
Business News | Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:37pm EDT Related: GREECE
Euro, stocks slide on looming Greece default
The euro fell almost 2 percent and share prices tumbled across Asia on Monday as Greece looked set to default on its debt repayment this week, forcing Athens to impose capital controls to halt bank runs.
With the prospect of Greece being forced out of the euro in plain sight, the common currency fell as much as 1.9 percent to $1.0955, its lowest in almost a month, and last stood down 1.4 percent at $1.1007.
Against the yen, the common currency dropped more than 3 percent to 133.80 yen, a five-week low.
As of 10PM EDT changes of 2% are being seen in exchange rates and stocks. The EURO against the yen has changed 3%. If you use bond duration and calculate 10 Year US bond values from the first link you see a 2.8% increase in bond market value. People looking for safe havens.
So with the Wall Street opening 12 hours off a pretty uniform 3% shift has been seen on far eastern markets. I would say the market reaction so far is restrained. If nothing else slips it can stay restrained. We will see early tomorrow..
Holding through this and through up coming rate changes by the FED is beginning to look reasonable depending upon duration.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jun 29, 2015 - 12:14am PT
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Puerto Rico has just announced that it also can not repay its debts. That's also likely to cause turmoil in the markets.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Jun 29, 2015 - 05:00am PT
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I my opinion, the U.S. market has been ripe for a sell-off, for quite some time. The current situation could be the catalyst.
The old saying, "what goes up must come down", still holds, in most cases.
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Gunkie
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 05:54am PT
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I've heard that Greece default and projected, subsequent Grexit from the EU will be the beginning of the PIIG nations bailing. I strongly doubt that considering Ireland and Portugal are making decent gains to reshape their moribund economies; However, I'm not seeing Italy's efforts, but strongly believe the ECB fully understands that Italy is a lynch pin within the EU structure and will work super hard to keep them solvent.
But every time the US markets get hammered because of the Greek situation, I buy. It's working so far. Buying again today.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jun 29, 2015 - 05:58am PT
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My concern is the size of the decline.
Ever since the '08 crash, interest rates have remained at sixty year lows and quantitative easing went from a one time deal to an ongoing effort. Both policies were intended to jump start our economy. Instead, they've become longterm support. We've become immune to their intended benefits.
So what happens when the crash occurs?... and these proven policies are no longer effective?
Katie, bar the door.
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Gunkie
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:02am PT
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I my opinion, the U.S. market has been ripe for a sell-off, for quite some time. The current situation could be the catalyst.
The old saying, "what goes up must come down", still holds, in most cases.
SteveA, while I agree with the macroeconomic concept, I see 2015 as a consolidation year for the US markets that have run up so dramatically over the previous three years. We're seeing valuations retract to historically reasonable levels in the face of growing corporate earnings, increased employment and sane expansion of consumer credit.
There will be a correction, but everyday we watch the market move sideways reduces the chance in the near term.
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ruppell
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:09am PT
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Bitcoins.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:14am PT
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Stock Market only down 111 so far. But it seems the Puerto Rico debt, is larger and they can't pay either.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:34am PT
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climbski, here's Greece in a nutshell, pardon the pun:
You have a country with no industry* to generate taxes. Then you have a government with a
bloated bureaucracy far out of proportion to its actual needs. Then you have a populace with
perhaps the highest percentage of tax dodgers in Europe. Then you have a government that
buys votes by giving jobs to lean on a shovel. Then you have international financiers who are
all too glad to loan unsecured money to fund such nonsense. Pretty simple to see that this
can't end well, eh?
*the one industry that does make money, shipping, off-shores its income so it pays few taxes.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:36am PT
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I'm having a rare morning here in downtown manhattan. It's one of those mornings where the adventure life, gives you the guts to play in the mosh pit.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:37am PT
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Thanks Reilley.. I guess that is my question.. is the crisis fundamental in economic nature as you suggest or is it more artifical due to a poor/predatory monetary system.
Or some mix of both.
I still wonder but at least I can see another veiwpoint.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:42am PT
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They're headed down the exact same road as Argentina.
Reilly!! A year and a half after one of the biggest economic collapses in history Argentina was in full recovery. The devaluation, the default, reneging on the contracts and tarrif agreements with foreign companies operating in the country together with a boom in commodities all gave Argentina a remarkable jolt of economic growth seldom seen in the country.
I should mention: IMO, eight years of mismanagement by Cristina (or should I say: management aimed principally at maintaining her own power instead of the long term benefit of Argentines) has pretty much pissed all this away and Argentina is in trouble all over again.
At any rate, as far as I understand Greece has been shouldered with the pains of economic crisis for a number of years now (are we going on five years so far, or even more?) with no end in sight, while Argentina suffered two years of economic crisis, tops, before rebounding to one of its biggest periods of economic growth in history .... something Argentines are very much aware of when they are being talked about by outsiders and something to keep in mind, methinks, if you wanna use Argentina as an example.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:51am PT
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Well, it always takes two to tango. It's like those parents who give their spoiled brats a credit
card with little, if any, limit. A complication to this case is that after the poo hit the fan they
voted in these so-called socialists who promised to stand up for the Greeks' dignity? If they
were adults they would swallow the little dignity they have left and sit down with the Germans
and work this out. If they insist on waving their freak flag of nihilism they will find themselves
shut out of the international financial markets just like Argentina and they will go into the same
death spiral (in aviation-speak) of printing money to pay for the non-existent jobs they hand
out to the party faithful thereby fueling rampant inflation and the exhaustion of all savings.
Yanqui. the so-called recovery was just the setup for further inflation. The fact that it didn't
last is proof. Would you deny Argentina is worse off now? When I was there a little over
two years ago the exchange rate was under 4 pesos to the dollar. Now it is over 9!
There's NO FREE LUNCH!
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jun 29, 2015 - 08:18am PT
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Would you deny Argentina is worse off now?
Well, I think, overwhelmingly, the vast majority of Argentines would say they are much better off today than during the crisis (fourteen years ago). I, personally, am much better off (at this moment) than during the crisis. However I would agree with the statement that the current situation in Argentina is not sustainable for much longer.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jun 29, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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Assuming Greece's default is not averted after the last minute by a fearful EU; what other countries their will see the end of their own unsustainable utopian economies built on consumption without production?
Which ones, and if, how soon? Shine up your crystal balls and hazard some predictions.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 29, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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As the US runs on a 100% faith (and aggressive military) based and backed dollar, the clock on it's 'value' will likely not run out until world-wide war. Or pehaps I should say, wider than it is now.
Greece failing or any one of the other bazillion things wrong with the world will not trigger a US currency collapse.
That being said, if you have $$$ in the Wall Street Casino, I wish you well.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Jun 29, 2015 - 08:43am PT
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It's really hard to say, if it will be Italy or Spain, the next to go. One bad day, a terrorist attack, punctuated by videos of "migrants"swarming vehicles on the highways, could kick it off. They're that edgy right now.
Another big load of tourons in body bags, doesn't help either. On some of the Greek Islands, Syrian refugees, outnumber residents. There's a lot going on and the governments seem powerless to deal with it.
The Greek situation is pretty well sealed. The bank run, means the rats are leaving. The rats always know when the ship is going down.
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