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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 18, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
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Cragman, face it , we have a gun problem.
Every country has societal problems. Many of our societal problems are exacerbated by our gun culture. Our gun culture, in all of its vulgarity, stands alone among first world nations....we should be ashamed.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 18, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
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Yes, Dean, it's the combination of irresponsible people and guns.
How do we try to reduce this combination?
We can't legislate morality (or family values) or solve many mental health issues, but licensing of guns is an available tool.
The difficulty is to manage the positives and negatives of licensing.
Even with a good licensing system, some people will get around it, like in this tragedy.
It's still worth working on, though - may be possible to improve it.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 18, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
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Cragman, you're a standup guy....I guess that we will just have to agree to disagree.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jun 18, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
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This is a problem with no simple answer. No gun problem?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 18, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
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Hmm, I wonder what the graph looks like with Mexico included?
:-)
And what is going on in Chile?
Thanks for explaining, thebravecowboy.
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thebravecowboy
climber
liberated libertine
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Jun 18, 2015 - 09:19pm PT
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per Wiki, it's about 3x that of the U.S., Clint. And it has nothing to do with American firearm supply chains, nor that Anglo coca habit.
Venezuela, Guatemala, and Swaziland come in at 10x the U.S. rate, while Honduras clocks in at ~20x the U.S. homicide by firearm rate.
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10b4me
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
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when a 2nd Amendment fanatic has his son or daughter killed like this, then rest assured they will re-think gun control
I disagree. This is when the eye for an eye attitude becomes all consuming.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2015 - 10:55pm PT
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According to he American Bar Association (.org) web site, firearm deaths in the United States are 8 times higher than its economic counterparts in the world.
Check it out for yourself - there's some more equally dismal pieces of information related to this topic.
I'd like to think that the ABA is pretty careful about the accuracy of the facts that they post.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 19, 2015 - 02:53am PT
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OK, that table at least explains what's going on with Switzerland (it's suicides, not homicides).
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Jun 19, 2015 - 04:52am PT
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Jun 18, 2015 - 08:48pm PT
"We don't have a gun problem...we have a society problem.
Our society glorifies violence in so many ways. These kids today are being raised on a constant dose from TV, movies, and those video games that are absolutely appalling.
Factor in the biggest culprit....parents who allow their children to take all of that junk in.....and deaden their senses to just how abhorrent violence is.
This father gave his son a handgun for his 21st birthday, knowing full well that the kid had a serious hate problem. Gee....I wonder where that came from???? "
I couldn't agree more Cragman.
I just came back from the UK, which according to the chart, has one of the lowest rates of gun violence per capita.
This violence certainly is a national disgrace.
Many of our youth are addicted to violent video games, which also reflects,
in my opinion, a very bad trend. I'm at a loss to find a simple solution; except good parenting.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:24am PT
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We have a gun and societal problem, imo; a lethal combination. It's a myth that owning a gun makes you more safe.
It looks like the kid bought the gun used in the massacre himself with birthday cash.
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Gary
Social climber
From A Buick 6
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:53am PT
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That's because the arms merchants have built and sold millions upon millions of weapons to civilians. This isn't some kind of natural disaster. This situation where 'criminals can get a gun if they want' IS A DIRECT RSULT of the proliferation of firearms in our society. 1+1=2.
Spot on.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Jun 19, 2015 - 06:53am PT
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We don't have a gun problem...we have a society problem.
Dean can you possibly imagine that just perhaps, just maybe we have both? Is it really that much of a stretch to link them?
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Jun 19, 2015 - 07:12am PT
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Clam shells were not specifically designed for killing people Dean.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Jun 19, 2015 - 07:34am PT
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Dean I may be missing your point about clam shells but you are missing mine....
Here is the link to the company who manufactured the weapon used in the Sandy Brooke ES killings: http://www.bushmaster.com/
The marketing of their products has changed since SB with the whole military hero sniper imagines. Previously they had skulls all over their web site. My point is that these problems are linked and clearly the marketing of these weapons demonstrates just how strong that link is with all the macho bravado references.
I have no doubt you are a responsible citizen and gun owner. I think of myself the same as a citizen and gun owner. The problem we have is there are many in our society who are sick and or dysfunctional. Creating a system for easy access and fanned by a culture of violence is a bad combination. We have both problems.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 19, 2015 - 07:52am PT
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And the confederate flag is still proudly flown in S. Carolina.
yes, and they name streets after Confederate Generals..
who bravely fought to keep black people as slaves
when you have a living culture in the American South that encourages racism ...............
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jstan
climber
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Jun 19, 2015 - 08:59am PT
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yes, and they name streets after Confederate Generals..
A couple of observations
1. People who have been pissed off, never forget.
2. Now, shall we discuss Iraq?
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