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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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May 18, 2015 - 10:10pm PT
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No.. you are the only one mentioning Graham.
It's appropriate to have several threads for this.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 18, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
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hey there say, bushman... no, please KEEP the thread... you know, there are many many magazines, in the world...
housekeeping...
field and stream...
climbing...
cooking...
so MANY of them, yes, DO share the same things, but, they also HAVE different things, mixed in as well...
different ways of saying or sharing...
something needed for everyone, done in various different ways...
you see?
here, we need THIS one, too...
every way, and every share, have an importance, and SO DOES yours...
thank you for sharing this... and, it also, as one poster just said:
DOES add a chance for some folks to share about graham, as well...
*no one means to leave him out, but it is only natural, to humans, to share on what they do know... and, graham was younger, and newer, so naturally not many folks would know to think quickly, as to his name, or WHAT to share about him, yet...
this gives some folks a chance to do so, :)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 18, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
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hey there say, RP3... thank you for sharing the video...
i had seen it, on a facebook page, but was not sure if i should share it... but i see now, it is YOUTUBE... so thus, it is open for all to see...
thank you so much... he was someone, beloved son, and had things to share, that he wanted folks to hear... now, more folks can hear him...
and folks like me, can learn about how BASE jumpers, feel about what they love to do...
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 10:49pm PT
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Ok, no worries all...just gonna have to 'Let it Be.'
Goodnight for now...
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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May 18, 2015 - 10:57pm PT
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More on Graham, whom I didn't know - from a friend on FB, thanks for letting us get to know who he was:
Beautiful climbing days marred by sad news. Honoring Grambo (Graham Hunt) as Matt asked me to and I would love to. A friend and brother to Matt; one who seems to be a mystery to many and should be remembered as a talented, amazing and humble young man. Only 29. Matt wants it to be known that Graham was a "true silent warrior that will always be respected and missed". Matt frequently would share stories of their adventures together or speak enviously on how Graham was in Europe doing nothing but flying for months on end. Whether cranking on rock or perfecting technical lines, obviously Dean chose a wingman who was skilled and vice versa. Every time I'd see him when he was with Matt or at an eastside crag, he was smiling, positive and always wanted to know how you were and hear about what was going on in your life. People would always talk about when Grambo was cleaned up, he had SoCal "model" looks and the girls were crazy about him.
He used to have this Frenchie bulldog that was often with him, Ted. But poor Ted was not an outdoor dog and would injure himself, whether it was a stick in the eye, a thorn in the paw, diarrhea from eating something he found, etc. Poor Ted was a master at triple outdoor injuries. Graham took loving care of him though and decided he would have to give Ted a new, not-so-outdoorsy lifestyle home. Last I saw him was in the valley with Matt and other friends and still remember this big smile on his face as they took off for another adventure. It's a perfect lasting impression; someone very alive and happy.
I can't necessarily speak for him but I know the rangers and the park rules were a thorn in his side as they restricted his freedom to fly and to live how he wanted. One time after a jump off Half Dome, he landed and instead of immediately taking off like someone would normally do, he had the balls to actually chill out and start packing his parachute right there. Ultimately, the rangers came. He stated that they had no proof of anything but him packing his chute. It's a beautiful setting to pack a chute, right? smile emoticon
And of course, Matt wants to honor Dean; Matt respects and admires him so much and appreciates the few adventures they have had together.
Rest in peace to these fine men...and may we celebrate their lives with great memories and continue to feel their spirit as if they were tangibly with us. My heart hurts as my love feels the pain....
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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May 19, 2015 - 07:00am PT
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Thanks for posting this about Graham. So many news articles focus just on Dean Potter but both lives deserve memorial.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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May 19, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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I am devastated by all this and feel for all the families involved. I was introduced to graham through sean leary years back when he was learning the basics. We had a great day of getting to know each other as we hiked to our exit, the jump is another hilarious story for another time. Then another time we ran into each other after coming around the base of half dome. An incredble person with a fire in his eyes and truly kind. I barley knew dean, but know plenty of stories and the valley will be a different place without both of you. This is horrendous to say the least.
Fly free and live your dreams whatever they may be. For all those we have lost, you are in our hearts forever and we miss you beyond words.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 19, 2015 - 12:32pm PT
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I don't know how much I should say about this, but the picture of Taft Point with a vertical line drawn on it is wrong.
Wingsuiting really has two forms.
One: You fly out from the wall into clear air, have a long flight, open away from any object, and land. Early wingsuit flights were like this, but very quickly the other type became the objective:
Two: Proxy flying, meaning proximity. Those are jumps where you fly a line that can be a mile or more long, flying as close as you can to the cliff, through notches in ridges, or even gaps in trees. Youtube is covered with videos of this, and this was what Dean and Graham were doing.
I heard last night that Dean had recently been in Europe, where he had been doing 2 flights or more per day, and did about 200 flights. He was basically at the top of the game, extremely skilled, and very current, meaning that he had been doing flights regularly. I don't know how many flights he had made, but my guess is over a thousand. He had been doing it for years. Without a go-pro or spray, I might add. He kept it pretty personal.
The proxy lines are very much like climbing routes. Most of them are known, and some of the popular ones in Europe have been done thousands of times. The flip side to this is that some of the best wingsuit flyers have been dying lately. It is the most dangerous type of BASE, and is really something new. It has little to do with jumping a 500 foot cliff in Moab where you free fall for only two seconds, toss your pilot chute, and land. With this, you have to learn to fly your body, and that requires experience. A lot of it.
Danger aside, it is probably the coolest thing that a human being can do, and you really are flying compared to old BASE. I exchanged a bunch of emails with Dean about 4 or 5 years ago, and told him to be careful out there. He responded with an email whose subject line was "Fly'n, not Die'n."
He told me that with care, he really thought that you could do this forever, and have a long life.
That is the only way I knew Dean, through emails. He was looking for info about when climbers became jumpers. Although I wasn't the first climber to BASE jump, I was the first one to almost completely quit climbing and go do BASE full time. Will Oxx was tied up in the Air Force. When he got out, he exceeded me by a lot, doing a ton of new objects.
These lines are just like climbing routes. They are usually known. You can scout them out before hand by flying higher, or further away from the cliff or ground, to see if it is possible and how dangerous it is, then you refine it into a line, and I can almost promise you that this was not his first time off of Taft point. Not even close. I wouldn't be surprised if he had done Taft Point 50 times.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 19, 2015 - 10:33pm PT
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hey there say, ... just a bump, as there was some shares about graham here that folks might not have seen yet...
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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May 20, 2015 - 01:12am PT
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Base, thanks for the information. Do you have a sense as to how difficult their intended line was? Do you know if Dean had flown through this notch before? I think there is an image on another thread that suggests the notch is about 2,000 feet below their takeoff point and about 3,000 feet horizontally. So if that is correct and if you drop several hundred feet before you start flying, then you would need a glide ratio of about 2.0 to clear the notch.
Dean's accomplishments were incredible. The skill level and courage required for these flights is beyond my comprehension.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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May 20, 2015 - 02:55am PT
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Base,
thank you,
as climbers we need information to process,
to fill the void of understanding with.
So that we can rationalize the mechanics,
as the metaphysics of the death of the most dedicated to an art form
by the art form is beyond understanding.
For the shares of the memories of the two hero's now gone.
Gone, And gone on to become bright lights in the gallery of past Giants,
Thank you,
realize that the dream of flight touches deep and wide
Often effecting the truly gravity challenged in profound ways-
At the non climbing gym where I and very fat old people hang out, the topic of the deaths were on the lips of men and women who individually and as a group have trouble walking due to life style choices. The overwhelming sentiment was one of gratitude for the dreams that the extreme life-style choices that some pursue, allow them to have and set goals by.
As inspiring as flying and flyres are to the cognoscenti, it is the ill formed thrusting hoard of jelly belly's who live most vicariously thru the lives and stories of extreme life style artists/Alternative livers.
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John Ely
Trad climber
DC
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May 22, 2015 - 08:40am PT
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'If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.
Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. It is not important that he should mature as soon as an apple tree or an oak. Shall he turn his spring into summer? If the condition of things which we were made for is not yet, what were any reality which we can substitute? We will not be shipwrecked on a vain reality. Shall we with pains erect a heaven of blue glass over ourselves, though when it is done we shall be sure to gaze still at the true ethereal heaven far above, as if the former were not?' - H Thoreau, Walden
So sad to hear about Potter and Hunt. The world, north american and yosemite climbing communities have lost one of their truly original creations. Condolences to family and friends and everyone else who is also grieving this loss.
Probably this Guardian report is not news to folks in the know, but it is gratifying to see that this excellent newspaper has generated a really useful article for the general public on issues of BASE jumping in the US, while honoring these two:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules-not-risk-cause-dean-potters-base-jumping-death
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vôo
climber
Denver, CO
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May 22, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
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Purely conjecture...
Take it for what it is worth.
If you zoom in on this view of Taft Point you can see the notch they intended to fly through.
http://gigapan.com/gigapans/45634/
It is possible that since it was evening the catabatic winds had kicked in. Combined with a west wind would have put them downwind of the other ridge.
In any other conditions they would have had enough reserve altitude to launch west, make the turn and proxy through the notch. Turbulent, descending air can eat into your performance in a big way.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 22, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
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^^^ good work! Did you look up the wind patterns for that day?
I was wondering about wind. Seems to me a good line/course would have some windsocks flying throughout.
Is anyone familiar with what pilots call "ground effect"? As these squirrel suiters are coming in and out of the vicinity of a ridge or notch, I wonder if GE could be playing a role?
In the first 20hrs of my pursuit of obtaining my private pilots lic. Ground Effect played a major role in the staining of my shorts..
I think it would be hugely beneficial for the squirrel suit guys to at least obtain a Glider Pilots Lic.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 22, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
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I am just wondering for that particular route, to what extent local air movement variations shrink an already small margin of safety, thus making an already risky route even more dangerous.
It is like a mathematical equation with a number of variables. The first is the initial dive off the rock, both speed and body orientation; even small deviations in those affect the margin of clearance with the obstacles below. If you add to that changes in air movement, there are two variables right off the bat which are difficult to control. So I can see doing this jump several times without mishap, and then one time some very slight and subtle changes in these variables make for a fatality.
I have never done wing suit jumping, but am looking at it from a mathematical standpoint.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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May 22, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
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BLUEBLOCR said:
Is anyone familiar with what pilots call "ground effect"? As these squirrel suiters are coming in and out of the vicinity of a ridge or notch, I wonder if GE could be playing a role? Probably not. Ground effect (which has the effect of decreasing total drag and thus increasing glide ratio) is insignificant when much more than about one wingspan above the ground, and is important only when closer than approximately 20% of a wingspan. When your wingspan is 6 ft or so, you'd have to be really close to a more or less horizontal surface for this to matter.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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May 25, 2015 - 10:00pm PT
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As to the wind at Taft Point, never seen anything like it - used to throw paper airplanes from there, that would lift, and enter the valley (going NE) never losing altitude. I had someone take a pic of me throwing a $5 bill off the cliff, and it blowing right back to me (during Carter administration $5 was worth a lot more lol).
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jstan
climber
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May 25, 2015 - 10:13pm PT
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Today you have to throw a $20 bill off Taft Point.
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