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R.B.
Big Wall climber
47N 122W
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:21pm PT
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Vitaliy -- Really?? -- While I am not a troll I had to express my opinion. I typically hold to a higher standard when selecting a style by which to climb by and if I would claim something in climbing history, I would be sure that is stellar. I certainly do not claim to be able to boulder at such standards, but I stand by what I posted above as to what a “FFA” really is.
What KJ and TC both accomplished is a 19-day ascent, and they deserve credit in history and bragging rights for what they accomplished -- by piecing together (rope-bouldering) all the moves of an extremely difficult 2900-ft El Cap aid line, and free variations thereof. But it is not “Free Climbing” … it’s bouldering with a rope on a big-wall using aid. They used siege tactics, had assistance from others, previewed, rehearsed and preplaced protection and ultimately fell multiple times and weighted gear. The style they used is best described as a rehearsed, big-wall rope-bouldering ascent using aid (because they weighted their equipment/ropes – which by definition make it 6th class or “Aid.”) It’s really, as simple as that. – the ascent is not exactly the purist definition of a first free ascent (FFA) style -- such as the enviable “on-sight flash, no falls, no hangs.” And while this story is culturally significant, they are not the first in history to claim or accomplish this on El Cap.
In 1985, the Salathe Wall had not yet been “rope-bouldered” (my term). In 1988 an FFA was climbed, claimed and named “Salathe Free” by Paul Piana and Todd Skinner (R.I.P.) at about 5.13b (pitch 20 below El Cap Spire). The style they used is similar to the same as this current story.
BITD - John Bachar (R.I.P) was considered by many as the purest climber of his era (’80-‘90’s)… and not too many climbers would argue that he wasn’t pushing the free-soloing/climbing standards that many today would consider difficult to repeat. Also, today I believe Alex Honnold’s big-wall free-solo ascent style truly establishes what the purist standard of big wall climbing will ever become – great style, but too sporty for me because “I want to live.” With big-wall free-soloing style, you climb it or you die. It is so binary (true or false – zero or one). Most climbers are not solid enough to accept the grave consequences of a miscalculation.
Now regarding my 1985 photo, from a mere 30 years ago, that you posted from my collection, if you might have recognized in the photo that I was following (jumaring) as the second on the 5.10b “Block Pitch” of the Salathe’ Wall –And then, it was (and still is) common big-wall practice to “jumar” as the second while cleaning the gear as the leader hauls the bag (pig) from above. While as the follower, I could have top-rope, free climbed, or heck even just pull the rope and relead the pitch, but it really doesn’t matter if I did, because I could have, but it wasn’t my lead; it was more about the adventure.
With all said you really should better know your stuff before you spend too much time posting meaningless and inflammatory personal attacks about me or about other people you don’t even know anything about. You have no idea as to what the depth of my climbing capability is.
Read the big-wall pioneer history: Royal Robbins and Warren Harding interviews (perspectives), in the “Vertical World of Yosemite” for more insight on this very subject, it’s a good read.
P.S.- Big-wall free-soloing is potentially fatal, and I personally do not endorse nor recommend such style of climbing. Use a rope, set some gear, and push your limits, maybe take a screamer, but most importantly live to tell about it!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:27pm PT
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It's all good.
and...It's official! EL cap has never been free climbed.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:31pm PT
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word has it that Alex is planning to free-solo the Dawn Wall next spring,
self will? that is your ego telling people how to behave on the internet, in an effort to boost a depleted and bombed out self esteem,
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R.B.
Big Wall climber
47N 122W
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:42pm PT
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Even tho I think Alex might be able to pull off such a feat ... I really would rather not have anything bad result from his efforts ... life is too good to gamble on a really crimpy overhanging painful ... etc.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:43pm PT
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On this particular climb each one of them led all the crux pitches clean (no falls, no takes). When they fell, they lowered and came back to send the pitch in a few hours or on another day.
This is not true. Unless I missed something with the live feed on the last day...the leader of the last 5.13 pitch(Pitch 31) fell, but did not pull the rope. Please correct me if I am wrong, this was an incredible effort by two very good climbers, but I was watching to see what happened when the leader fell and it looked to me like he didn't pull the rope and start over at the bottom.
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R.B.
Big Wall climber
47N 122W
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Jan 21, 2015 - 11:45pm PT
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It's really easy to lose the mojo with a 2700 foot abyss gnawing at you?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jan 22, 2015 - 02:38am PT
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Yo-yo is free climbing if you lower to a no hands rest. How dare any of you to question this FFA.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jan 22, 2015 - 05:55am PT
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Actually, yes, a toprope ascent can be a FFA. There are many climbs like that in Josh.
Come on people, this is climbing 101
Baloney, this is only the FTR(first toprope). The FA has to be from the ground up, nothing connecting the climber to the top.
To be or not to be? The question is how can you chop a route that isn't there?
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jan 22, 2015 - 06:01am PT
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RB makes some good points. Worth debating, but the climb stands as one of the great achievements in the sport, whatever you call it.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jan 22, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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10-09-30 8b+ Tough Enough Tsaranoro Valley / Karambony FA first free ascent in one day, what extraordinary piece of rock! did it first day, all pitches onsighted/flashed (saw a video) except 7th and 9th.
L1 7b+,L2 7c+,L3 8a+,L4 7c,L5 8a+,L6 8a+,L7 8b+,L8 8b+,L9 8b+, L10 8b ***
Apparently Adam Ondra still considers it an FFA if he has to redo a pitch.....
This is not true. Unless I missed something with the live feed on the last day...the leader of the last 5.13 pitch(Pitch 31) fell, but did not pull the rope. Please correct me if I am wrong, this was an incredible effort by two very good climbers, but I was watching to see what happened when the leader fell and it looked to me like he didn't pull the rope and start over at the bottom.
Yup. KJ never pulled the rope. So it was a yo-yo ffa
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 22, 2015 - 09:07am PT
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Yep. The T is definitely NOT flowing today.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 22, 2015 - 09:44am PT
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I typically hold to a higher standard when selecting a style by which to climb by and if I would claim something in climbing history, I would be sure that is stellar.
Obviously you personally did not put anywhere close to a fraction of effort into rock climbing as Tommy and Kevin have. Their skills are a result of hard work and commitment. And it is not about what YOU want for them, it is about what they are ok with for themselves. If they think what they did was the absolute best they could give the wall at the moment, that should be fine with everyone. Them working for 7+ years and spending 19 days on a wall is not enough for YOU? LOL
They used siege tactics, had assistance from others, previewed, rehearsed and preplaced protection and ultimately fell multiple times and weighted gear.
I don't think anyone ever denied that. No one claimed it was some perfect pure style. They worked the moves for years and they tried to link the pitches together from bottom to the top. At times jumaring back up to "send" the next pitch in line, than rapelling down etc etc. It is what it is. It is not for me, it is not for you, it is for THEM. It is their climb. For f*#k's sake, don't we all go to the mountains to explore ourselves? Why do we feel the need to whip out our e-penis and piss on someone's campfire if it is more developed than ours? As long as they did not lie about what they did, it is fine with me. Personal journey is what matters.
but it really doesn’t matter if I did, because I could have, but it wasn’t my lead; it was more about the adventure.
Maybe Tommy KNOWS that he COULD HAVE done it in a day solo, but decided it is about having fun and instagramming his sandwiches from the wall for 19 days. Since ten million of armchair mountaineers, has beens, never will bes and morons will talk about it for years to come, why the hell not eh!?
What is more adventurous, climbing an established (in 1961) trade route big wall with a topo, or trying to free climb the blankest looking face of El Cap?
With all said you really should better know your stuff before you spend too much time posting meaningless and inflammatory personal attacks about me or about other people you don’t even know anything about. You have no idea as to what the depth of my climbing capability is.
Don't give a sh#t about the depth of your climbing capability, guys you climb with, what you have done or who f*#ked up your hair cut. I guess you must be a below average climber if you jumar 10b pitches. :) Welcome to the internet. Any insecure wanker can school you on style and about ways to be better. Isn't it awesome?!
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RP3
Big Wall climber
Twain Harte
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Jan 22, 2015 - 10:20am PT
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BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 22, 2015 - 10:23am PT
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R.B Done got had. LOL
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jan 22, 2015 - 10:26am PT
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not really
blahblahblahballcupblahblahblah
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ron ray
climber
seattle
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Jan 22, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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I'm always amused by these boards but never post, as I'm only an armchair climber now and never was all that good.
But as fascinating as it is to see y'all debate whether Tommy and Kevin did an FFA, a FTRA, a Yo-Yo Ma or something else, they weren't hanging on gear and were upfront about their tactics.
So it might be best to temper your criticism until someone does it better. I'll be happy to honor the guy or gal who does the first nude barefoot free solo as well. Anything else is artificial, right?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 22, 2015 - 11:06am PT
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The climber would have to raise themselves and not be able to read or talk to anyone in their whole life. Also perhaps be born out of thin air.
Otherwise it's clearly an aided ascent.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jan 22, 2015 - 11:28am PT
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^^^
Lol
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Smokey
Trad climber
Colorado
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Jan 22, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
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Baseline definition: every pitch is led free in a push by either climber, whether red point, pink point or yo-yo (i.e. each pitch is free climbed on lead from belay to belay without resting on the rope). I include yo-yo as a legitimate though dated free climbing style, since so many of the 1970s/80's test pieces were done that way.
It's a "team free" ascent if one of the climbers does not free climb a pitch, but that pitch must have been led for the ascent to be called a FFA. Team free is a very minimum standard; most climbers wouldn't put their name in the "free" column if they hadn't freed the whole climb.
On the DW all pitches were led free, and both climbers free climbed every pitch. The ascent is given an FFA because every pitch was led free, and both climbers can be credited with the FFA, because both ... freed it.
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