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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
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"You guys think it matters what party is in charge."
To some degree, it does matter.
No matter what the result, do you think Romney would have taken on healthcare?
Most of the social issues I care about would get no attention from Republicans...or worse, there would be momentum in the opposite direction.
Wars, economy, serving their own Party interest?...yeah, their probably about the same in these respects.
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John M
climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
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I doubt that we would have gone into Iraq without Bushco..
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
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Does this require a separate thread? I realize the thread is full of untruths, but how does that differ from our "normal" political thread?
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 11, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
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Probably not, John M, but some kind of post-9/11 military reaction would have been likely even from Gore, methinks.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 11, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
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the perpetrators of 9/11 were clearly based in Afghanistan.
as we know now, the case for invading Iraq was specious.
Something had to happen in Afghanistan. No similar necessity for Iraq
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 11, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
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This is often forgotten to fit a political viewpoint, I remember Democrats Kennedy and Johnson and Vietnam very well.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 11, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
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blahblah
you don't have to insult me to correct me.
Indeed, I wrote my post from memory. I was incorrect
I think your post struck a chord with me because I've heard the same general thing over the years--some BS notion that Bush "stole" the election and "respectable" media (if there is such a thing) did a recount that proves that.
In fact, as your second post shows, that's neither true nor close to being true. The simplest reasonable way to look at the situation is that Bush won "fair and square" regardless of what the US Supreme Court did. As the above posts show, Bush would have won if the US Supreme Court would have granted Gore the relief that he sought.
The most the can be said is that under certain scenarios, some types of recounts would have given the election to Gore (although not the type of recount that Gore actually sought in court). That's unsurprising given that the election actually was very close.
And morphing that into "Bush stole the election" is completely dishonest, yet somehow that seems to be a popular narrative.
So sorry if I vented against you in particular on that, although you were in fact guilty of repeating a malicious untruth, and your second post, while admitting that your first post was wrong, did then go on with a little weaseling.
I don't think your memory just played a trick on you (as happens to us all)--I very much suspect that you heard the liberal lie that Bush stole the election and since it fit into your preferred world view, you just assumed it was true. So you're sort of a victim, but perhaps a bit of a willing one?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Both sides cheat along these lines.
Quit embarrassing yourselves by whining otherwise.
No one believes your side is pure and the other side is evil bad. No one.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Jun 11, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
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Claiming the 04 election had no effect and everything would have gone down the same way with Gore demonstrates a spectacular level of ignorance
Holy Fcuk
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jun 11, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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Well ,If it does not matter which party is in charge ,Why then ,is Obama effing it up?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 11, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
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Or perhaps a better question for you Republi-droids....
If there is no difference b/w Parties, and you think Obama is effing it up, why should you care?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
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What was being said is that both sides cheat when it comes to elections and voting---not that there are not significant general differences between the parties and their respective guiding ideologies.Obviously there clearly are.
I suspect the reason why this thread even exist is due to Obama's and the Democrats growing problems of late. The liberal establishment---or at least that unquestioning segment more susceptible to latching on and running with the latest narrative---are attempting to counter their current political misfortunes by going back to their number 1 play book instruction of blaming Bush.
So they dig up some obscure Professor who has been lurking around faculty lounges most of his life to claim that Bush and the Republicans stole the national election.
I mean, aren't Professors who study elections in the same category as most " journalists"
in the area of objectivity.? Come on.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Jun 11, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
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You are RIGHT,there is hardly anything YOU could blame on shrub.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 11, 2014 - 06:14pm PT
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blahblah
go on with a little weaseling. Be specific.
I in fact made an error of memory.
Was I pissed in 2000? you bet.
It was absolutely clear that Florida had completely f**ed up (regardless who really won). Did I believe it was deliberate? Actually, no I didn't. Not then, not now.
I do believe the Supreme Court F**D up by not making Florida work out the real numbers. As did 2 Supreme Court Justices
Bush v Gore:
Justices Breyer and Souter wanted to remand the case to the Florida Supreme Court to permit that court to establish uniform standards of what constituted a legal vote and then manually recount all ballots using those standards. "uniform standards" because all justices agreed that Florida standards varied so much that using them for a recount would violate the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.
in the dissenting opinionWhat must underlie petitioners' entire federal assault on the Florida election procedures is an unstated lack of confidence in the impartiality and capacity of the state judges who would make the critical decisions if the vote count were to proceed. Otherwise, their position is wholly without merit. The endorsement of that position by the majority of this Court can only lend credence to the most cynical appraisal of the work of judges throughout the land. It is confidence in the men and women who administer the judicial system that is the true backbone of the rule of law. Time will one day heal the wound to that confidence that will be inflicted by today's decision. One thing, however, is certain. Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's Presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law.
and no one will ever convince me that Shrub is not the Village Idiot, Cheney is not Valdemort, Rumsfeld not a consummate liar and Colin Powell pathetic.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2014 - 06:40pm PT
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Hey Dr. F , Hillary's book is down to a 40% mark down:
You'll be needin' some light summer readin'
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 11, 2014 - 06:53pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 11, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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What was being said is that both sides cheat when it comes to elections and voting
care to name some cheating in elections and voting that the Democrats are doing?
out of all of them that you know, just a few will do
thanks
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Jun 11, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
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I suspect the reason why this thread even exist is due to Obama's and the Democrats growing problems of late. The liberal establishment---or at least that unquestioning segment more susceptible to latching on and running with the latest narrative---are attempting to counter their current political misfortunes by going back to their number 1 play book instruction of blaming Bush.
That's just sad man
Really you should be as pissed off about this as any American but the fact that you're attributing the release of this information as political grandstanding makes it pretty clear that you're just a partisan hack.
Sorry you don't understand why people would want to get the truth out about this nadir of American politics.
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