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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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dunno LC, I think that oxytocin is pretty much it for "higher order emotions" like love.
"we have determined the role of certain neurochemicals during affiliation behaviour on an interspecies basis. Our results indicate that concentrations of beta-endorphin, oxytocin, prolactin, beta-phenylethylamine, and dopamine increased in both species after positive interspecies interaction."
Dogs feel love via the same neurochemicals that we do.
From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12672376
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/HuntingIsConservation/25ReasonsWhyHuntingIsConservation.aspx
Reason No. 1 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1907, only 41,000 elk remained in North America. Thanks to the money and hard work invested by hunters to restore and conserve habitat, today there are more than 1 million.
Reason No. 2 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1900, only 500,000 whitetails remained. Thanks to conservation work spearheaded by hunters, today there are more than 32 million.
Reason No. 3 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1900, only 100,000 wild turkeys remained. Thanks to hunters, today there are over 7 million.
Reason No. 4 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1901, few ducks remained. Thanks to hunters’ efforts to restore and conserve wetlands, today there are more than 44 million.
Reason No. 5 why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1950, only 12,000 pronghorn remained. Thanks to hunters, today there are more than 1.1 million.
Reason No. 6 why Hunting Is Conservation: Habitat, research and wildlife law enforcement work, all paid for by hunters, help countless non-hunted species.
Reason No. 7 why Hunting Is Conservation: Through state licenses and fees, hunters pay $796 million a year for conservation programs.*
Reason No. 8 why Hunting Is Conservation: Through donations to groups like RMEF, hunters add $440 million a year to conservation efforts.*
Reason No. 9why Hunting Is Conservation: In 1937, hunters actually requested an 11% tax on guns, ammo, bows and arrows to help fund conservation. That tax, so far, raised more than $7.2 billion for wildlife conservation.*
Reason No. 10 why Hunting Is Conservation: An 11% tax on guns, ammo, bows and arrows generates $371 million a year for conservation.*
Reason No. 11 why Hunting Is Conservation: All together, hunters pay more than $1.6 billion a year for conservation programs. No one gives more!*
Reason No. 12 why Hunting Is Conservation: Three out of four Americans approve of hunting, partly because hunters are America’s greatest positive force for conservation.
Reason No. 13 why Hunting Is Conservation: As taxpayers, hunters also fund the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, U.S. Forest Service, etc.
Reason No. 14 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunting funds conservation AND the economy, generating $38 billion a year in retail spending.*
Reason No. 15 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunting supports 680,000 jobs, from game wardens to waitresses, biologists to motel clerks.*
Reason No. 16 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunters are the fuel behind RMEF and its 6.3 million-plus acres of habitat conservation. More than 95 percent of our 196,000 members are passionate hunters.
Reason No. 17 why Hunting Is Conservation: A wildlife management tool, hunting helps balance wildlife populations with what the land can support, limits crop damage and curtails disease outbreaks.
Reason No. 18 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunters help manage growing numbers of predators such as cougars, bears, coyotes and wolves. Our government spends millions to control predators and varmints while hunters have proven more than willing to pay for that opportunity.
Reason No. 19 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunting has major value for highway safety. For every deer hit by a motorist, hunters take six.
Reason No. 20 why Hunting Is Conservation: Deer collisions kill 200 motorists and cost $10 billion a year. Imagine costs without hunting!
Reason No. 21 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunters provide for conservation—and for their families. Hunting is a healthy way to connect with nature and eat the world’s most organic, lean, free-range meat.
Reason No. 22 why Hunting Is Conservation: Hunter numbers are down, while hunter spending for conservation is up. Unequaled devotion!
Reason No. 23 why Hunting Is Conservation: Avid hunter Theodore Roosevelt created our national forests and grasslands and forever protected 230 million acres for wildlife and the public to use and enjoy.
Reason No. 24 why Hunting Is Conservation: With funding from hunters, RMEF helped restore wild elk herds in six states and provinces.
Reason No. 25 why Hunting Is Conservation: As society loses its ties to wildlife and conservation, the bonds with nature formed by hunting are the greatest hope for creating the next generation of true conservationists.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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I realize this thread is something of a troll, I love trolling (for Stripers), I'll bite.
Sportsman (hunter /fisher people) have done an outstanding job of conserving natural resources for all Americans.
Climbers, what have they done? Uh, uh, uh.
Take for example: Rock and Ice Magazine claims to be a magazine that is "By climbers, For Climbers". R&I regularly publishes stories which glorify criminal / illegal activity by climbers, it is the way that magazine rolls. They routinely wave their middle finger at the land managers and the rest of the population.
Do you know what would happen if a major hunting magazine posted information on hunting that was illegal / criminal? There would be an incredible backlash which would result in arrests and fines and probably lifetime loss of hunting / fishing privileges.
As an aside, those of you still gutting your large game would be well advised to learn about quartering, where you don't even puncture the abdominal cavity. Lots of Youtube videos.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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In 1950, only 12,000 pronghorn remained. Thanks to hunters, today there are more than 1.1 million
Not buying the "thanks to hunters" angle on pronghorn. AFAIK, their recovery had a lot more to do with prohibition or heavy restrictions on hunting throughout most of the west. By the 1920s, overhunting had decimated the population. States like Nebraska had banned hunting them altogether by about 1900 or so.
You could also make a decent argument that whitetail population increases had much more to do with both ag and residential development than any hunting/conservation. The so called "edge" or "transition" habitat is very good for whitetail deer, and disrupting the natural environment (primarily mixed oak/pine forest where I come from)via development, increases the plant life diversity.
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John M
climber
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Hunters give 14 BILLION a year to their wildlife management.
statements like this are why you are considered to be overly simplistic. Hunters pay a licensing fee. They don't voluntarily donate, i.e. give this money. Have hunters helped to create these rules and regulations? Yes.. But so did tree huggers/conservationist. Oh.. the dreaded tree hugger.
Ron.. do you know the populations of mountain lions in north america in the 1600s? Or the populations of water fowl in the 1600s?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oddest hunting thing I've seen is the managed hunt for bison in southern Utah. It's a lottery licensing thing, and once in a lifetime (if you are ever drawn, that's your one and only chance).
The population is tiny, and I was pretty shocked they hunt them at all. This was just off the eastern border of CapReef, between the park and the Henry Mtns. I was working hoods in the woods in that area and had seen the herd several times. Met one of the hunting parties one year, and one of the guys bagged one the second day out.
I can't see any reason whatsoever to allow hunting them from an ecological standpoint.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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this is just like watching a morbidly obese St. Bernard try to f*#k a soccer ball.
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John M
climber
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There are MORE:
bears
Coyotes
bobcats
mtn lions
wolves
pine martin
mink
beaver
white tail deer
mule deer
elk
desert bighorn
rocky mtn bighorn
cal bighorn
antelope
quail
chukar
ducks
geese
sandhill cranes
wild turkey
pigs
doves
and many other non game species NOW than ever before. How did that happen?
Thank you Ron.. Then basically this statement is unproveable and likely false. What you should have said is that populations are up since counting began for such things such as water fowl, which was the 1950s. A time when it was established that many species were endangered. So are species making a comeback thanks to fees and rules implemented by conservationists, some of whom were tree huggers and some of whom were hunters, a comeback from times of near extinction? Yep.. So maybe in the future you could stop your constant denigrations of what you call tree huggers, and recognize that both groups have contributed to both problems and solutions.
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John M
climber
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part of the engine, Ron.. only part. another part would be stuff I pay for. Ie.. taxes. someone had to collect and do something with those fees. It wasn't hunters on their own.
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John M
climber
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Ron.. you are an idjut too. you just got there before the current round of idjuts.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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I realize that you anti-hunter, anti-gun lunatics are trying to bash Ron Anderson, yet I will respond anyway.
Hey Mr. Mental, the hunting of buffalo was a program developed and supported by the US Government. The government wanted to take the lands owned by the Plains Indians, tribes who relied on Buffalo for their existence. Kill the buffalo, out goes the Indians.
I am proud to call myself a hunter. Hunting provides food for myself, family and pets. I know that the hundreds of dollars I spend every year pursuing this activity go towards wildlife conservation and habitat improvement, something which is enjoyed by many folks besides hunters.
I am almost ashamed to tell people I climb rocks. Rock climbers do a substantial amount of damage to the natural environment, through activities such as illegal trails and cliff alteration. Some climbers righteously defend magazines such as Rock and Ice, a narcissistic, short sighted magazine which regularly glorifies criminal activity.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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For hundreds of centuries buffalo roamed north Americas Great Plains. Up to 60 million of them thundered across the continent dominating the landscape and sustaining tens of thousands of Native Americans. That is until, a calculated slaughter nearly exterminated the buffalo and the cultures that revered them.
They are the most numerous of the large mammals ever to have lived on the planet, they are known as Buffalo, or Bison! Their ancestors came to North America from Asia during the Ice age and they quickly flourished. By the 18th century, the American Indians depended on them for their very survival. Buffalo were everywhere, and their meat, bones, skulls, hides, and even hooves were used for nourishment and sustenance.
In their 1804 expedition, Lewis and Clark described a moving multitude that darkened the plains from one horizon to the other. But as they moved westward, they built a world unsuited for free ranging herds of buffalo. Fences and railroads fragmented the open plains, the army and railroad companies hired hunter’s to kill buffalo’s by the thousands for their hungry crew. One hunter, Buffalo Bill, single handedly killed over 4,200 buffalo in less than two years. After the civil war, the U.S army set out to conquer the west. In order to defeat the Indians, they needed to defeat their one single food source: buffalo. So the order went out to eliminate the buffalo.
Plenty coo, chief of the crows wrote: when the buffalo went away the hearts of my people fell to the ground and they could not lift them up again, after this nothing happened, there was little singling anywhere.
If you think about it, buffalo were their entire economy at one point, and so its pretty hard for them to continue or even to have a culture after that. So when the tribes lost the buffalo to the slaughter, the very heart of their culture was slipped away.
http://www.americanbison.org/articles/what-happened-to-the-buffalo.html
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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Damn, that fat slobbery ol' St. Bernard is still humping away. I feel pretty sorry for the soccer ball.
I think the soccer ball could do better.
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speelyei
Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
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One time I was on a big ferris wheel at the fair. It quit working for some reason, and everybody was just stuck in their seats.
At first, people were pretty patient. Some giggled nervously, others talked to the people in the carts nearby. Adolescents rocked their carts wildly, until the carnies came and yelled up for them to stop.
After a while, it wasn't funny. It wasn't a lark. Little kids started to cry, people got cold, some had to go to the bathroom.
It got ugly. Some teens started to spit on people down below, and on people stuck in other carts. Insults and threats were yelled back and forth. The carnies got the wheel going again, but security and the cops were summoned. It was an ugly scene on the ground: security dragging teens away, people shoving, angry men demanding refunds from a shaking carnival ride operator who had no authority or means to provide funds. Parents with small children who felt powerless to confront the hoodlums who had spit on them. Little children crying, some with wet pants, people trying to fight.
A lot of threads on supertopo remind me of that time... of that ruined fair.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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you anti-hunter, anti-gun lunatics Probably not the best way to start off if your effort is to make an intelligent point. I am not sure what an "anti-gun lunatic" is, though, if I had to guess, is anyone who disagrees with your view of gun ownership. However, their views would probably be more in line with what the Bills of Rights says than your own.
I, for one, am not trying to bash Ron. He strikes me as a big boy and, I suspect, cares not a whit what others say about him on these threads, as it should be.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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I kill them as often as possible.
If other season's are open and the freezer isn't full I kill those species as well.
I wish there was a season for feral horses. It would save all of you a lot of money!
-Q-ball
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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in an effort to control those populations
too bad we can't control our population with hunting/trapping
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Then it's not possible to eliminate a population through hunting, following your logic.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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I know this is a post to try and get folks "up in arms"
But we seem to lack some pictures of critters that help sustain our families and communities.
Picture is a few Dog Snapper (also called dog toothed snapper) my dad shot in the early 60's at over 100 ft free diving.
These fish fed many. I may have crossed the line from animal and fish?
-Q-ball
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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I kill them as often as possible.
Looks like you need to EAT some of 'em, beanpole. I ain't seen someone that scrawny since Sally Struthers was on my tee-vee beggin' for the CCF.
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