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F10 Climber F11 Drinker
Trad climber
e350
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Fires were great,
However the Fire Cats were like Fires in a sports car with that lacing that went all the way to the toe
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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JB, funny about the long line at the mountain shop. You probably remember this, the first several shipments were sold out before we even received them (We were bringing in a thousand at a time). News would get out we had some arriving and people would drive all the way to Ventura from all places and wait for us to open up. Sometimes there would be 10-20 guys there bright and early. Charles Cole was one of them several times. Tar, you came by with Leclinski a few times.
Isn’t there a new revolution in shoes going on at this moment?
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E.C. Joe
climber
Lafayette
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One of my climbing partners, Richard Leversee called one day and said, "You've GOT to buy a pair of these! They'll lower the grade of a route instantly." Not only was I skeptical I was short of $$, but I scraped it together. When I got them we were doing some new routes in Sequoia and I was still using my E.B.'s. So, I tried the new dogs on a repeat of one of the lines that we had just put up. After that I threw my E.B.'s away... (I had just bought them just before Lever called!).
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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I'm still climbing in Fires, but they are getting old so I'll be buying some new sticky rubber shoes.
EDIT
E.C. Joe, yeah but when EBs came along they were a darn sight better than what there was (I started in RRs, great for aid, which was sort of the order of the day). I had my PAs resoled with EB rubber around 1975, thinking that they would be great for both smearing and edging, as PAs had a stiffer last. Sort of worked, but what would have worked better was if I was a better climber. ;-)
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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It was pretty amazing the buzz that swept through the climbing community when John first started showing these things around the Valley. I was running a climbing/backpacking program at a rich kids camp over at Huntington lake with Mike Paul and Shawn Curtis and we would shoot over to the Valley whenever we could to climb, hang-out or what have you. So we were there when John cracked out the first public offering of them out of his rig. He warned us of a bit of strech so I bought mine a size smaller then I would normally do, something I would come to regret as they didn't strech all that much. But what was cool was that when we got back to Huntington Lake, the Watusi went wild with his artful eye and hand and we soon had some of the coolest lookin rigs in the climbing world, or so we thought. It was a great time to be a climber.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Man,
When Fires came out it was a full blown revolution. On stuff that you had to edge on with EB's, you could smear with Fires.
I remember this one route that I couldn't sniff in EB's. Had one hard 5.11 dyno on it. There was this tiny dime edge that I could hike a foot up on, and I walked it in Fires and then soloed it. I couldn't use the little dime edge in EB's. There was this punji stick dead tree underneath it for extra viewing pleasure, so I secretly wired it first. I could nail it 3 out of 4 times or so in the Fires, and those were good enough odds for me, being young and stupid. Hence the solo. These were in the days when tube socks and painters pants were the mandatory uniform.
On stuff like that, they totally kicked ass.
edit: Sorry for the spray, but it is my example of how easy things got when Fires showed up. Just slip them on and you instantly became a better climber...sort of not really.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Not to go against the grain here, but I'm finding EB's are quite good on course granite. I picked up a hardly used pair for 8 dollars in a shop in Pocatello last week. I just tried them and I think they're pretty good. Maybe not as good as my Acopas or Mythos but still great. As they wear they leave a real coarse rubber that grips gritty granite superbly.
My dad left behind a footlocker full of unused rock shoes from the 1970's. When the sticky rubber came out he just stored the earlier shoes and climbed in the newer stickier models. But the old shoes (most of them unused) were way too big for me. But I was curious how the EB's worked so I bought these. They work great but might not be as hot on slicker rock (??) EB's have nice pointy toes. Those Fire's must have been awesome
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I measured the coefficient of static friction for a couple of different types of rock (sedimentary and igneous), four boots: RR's Chouinards, Fires and Kaukulators and a human hand (mine)... the results are interesting:
boot mu(sed), mu(ign)
RR, 0.76, 0.97
Chouinards, 0.80, 1.00
Fires, 0.86, 1.38
Kaukulators, 0.88, 1.22
hand, 0.60, 1.06
so the improvement in Fires over something like RR's is 13% for seditmentary type rock, but 42% for granite... does that correspond with reality?
The fact that the coefficient of static friction is larger than one may be worrisome, but actually reflects a more complex physical system then the simple friction model that the frictional forces are the normal force multiplied by the c-o-f... however, the results are interesting, and point to definite improvement in the boots.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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That's very interesting Ed. I wonder where the EB would have fit in, there. I'm much less scientific but I set the EB's on both the slick and coarse side of masonite along with an new pair of PA's my dad left behind. Then I measured the incline at which they began to skid downward. The EB was noticably stickier on the coarse side but on the slick side they were fairly close (the EB won out slightly). But the test might not be that valid cause the PA's were new and may have presented a flatter surface with more friction.
My Mythos weren't any better than the EB in my little trial. But the Acopas did hold on at about ten degrees steeper than the EB's.
I sure like the pointed toe on the old EB's. However, I noticed a pair of EB's on Ebay that were tan colored that looked to have a much more rounded toe than the old blue and white model.
By the way, do you think old RR's or PA's in new condition would be worth anything on the collectors market? These are way to big for me. They've been stored in a footlocker since before I was born. He probably bought them in early 1970's.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Thanks Sewellymon. I think they're probably 11 1/2. possibly 12. My dad seems to have experimented with sizes from 10 1/2 to twelve. If Tarbuster is interested I'll dig them out of storage and look for the exact size. (I think the PA's are probably an 11 but I doubt if there's much demand for them nowdays if there's no collectors or museum demand). Thanks for the input.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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First generation, still in service on their 5th resole. Used them on Monday on a 7 pitch slab route in Darrington, they persist in being my most comfy all day shoes. I've used 'em on long routes in the mountains too, even strapped crampons to them. I originally traded Ray Olson some PNW wild fungus for these puppies down in JT when I forgot to pack my EB's on a road trip.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mine on Epinephrine in Nov. 2004...
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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I would suspect EB’s are sporting some good rubber these days. Personally I liked the way they fit my foot.
Doug, I have stuff to trade…
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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They've been stored in a footlocker since before I was born. He probably bought them in early 1970's.
Ugh, a blow below the belt...
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Joseph, that's a great pic of Epinephrine with the snow covered ledge!
Mike, will trade for prototypes, drop me a line. It rained here today, fall's a coming!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 10, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
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I posted this on a thread I started but figure it is also appropriate here:
On Wednesday I broke down and finally bought a pair of Red Chili Spirits Impact for €67.50 (about $90 - the cheapest shoes Great Outdoors had) as my final pair of Fires are beginning to tire and I'd forgotten them at home and didn't want to make the side trip from the office to the home to the quarry. I'm not that impressed with them as I have been using them in Dalkey (very good granite there but the Red Chilis don't seem to smear all that well). They are suppose to be sticky rubber but I think my Fires smear better (and edge better).
These are my first pair of 'sticky rubber' shoes, as in 1983 I bought three pairs of Fires at a very good price at REI, (I think I recall it being REI), and I am finally wearing through the third pair (shows how much climbing I have done in the past 20 plus years).
Do these things need to be broken in before they are good for face, slab and smearing? Any suggestions on good shoes for the Meadows and Valley?
Weather has been good to gorgeous in the past 11 days here in Ireland and I have managed to get on the rock a good deal. I'll go after work this evening to Dalkey and see if these Red Chilis are any further to breaking in.
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 10, 2007 - 02:42pm PT
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Patrick, break them in AND resole with Evolve rubber at Yosemite Bum and they'll be the schizznitz.
I haven't tried the Acopas yet but want too.
__
Ditto what Off White says about the Epi pic.
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Apr 10, 2007 - 02:58pm PT
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While I really loved Fires, I thought the Ninja was a bigger revolution in shoes. I remember my first pair of blue ones I got from John, they turned my feet blue every time I used them. After a while they came out in red which was a little less noticable color for feet. But they introduced the whole notion of slippers and revolutionized shoes for sport climbing.
The other shoe that really changed things was the La Sportiva Mariacher. I had to learn to edge all over again after wearing Fires for a few years. But I always thought Fires had a limit to how thin of edges you could stand on and the Mariachers changed all that.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Apr 10, 2007 - 06:09pm PT
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I'll give you a little unimportant history. About two or slightly more years before Fire shoes came out, maybe 1980, or '79, I had the idea of designing a whole new shoe. I was bouldering pretty well, and my technique was good, but the shoes weren't that good. I had the idea for a new kind of rubber, and I knew it was out there somewhere and could be found and shaped and all, and it would be a thin sole, very thin, with hard but very frictionable rubber, so as to be able to exactly place the edge of the shoe on the tiniest of holds and yet be able to smear like glue if necessary. My grandmaster chess friend from Russia wanted to help me pull this off, but I had so many things going at once right then, some dire love affair, a million poems, songs, art things happening, I went dark and couldn't move for a time. I lost sight of that vision, but was about to ressurrect the idea when suddenly Fires were there, as though I had done my work on some psychic level, and others had run with it, and Fires had all of those frictional elements I had envisioned, although they didn't yet quite have the edging element I imagined could go with the friction... but close enough to be the best shoe to come along.
Pat
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Apr 10, 2007 - 06:27pm PT
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another totally awesome thread.
All I can add is from the perspective of being one of the first US retailers of the Fire rock shoe and what a fun time it was having those things in my inventory.
I recall being totally pleased and a little surprised that I got opened as a dealer, selling from my truck out at JTree.
I sold the bejesus out of 'em! ...laughing...
It was also obvious that - as a discounter - my days selling Fire's was probably limited. As the product caught on So Cal dealers started to beef about the guy at Joshua tree selling Fire's for less...laughing...
It was no surprise when the end came and of course I completely understood the reason. It was fun while it lasted. I recall the letter I got being really polite and (I'm pretty sure) we wrote back and said "no problem".
Ha, I remember shutting down Rick Piggot with 'em out at Deerhorn while he was still in EB's! He bought Fire's pretty quick after that.
Many thanks.
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