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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jul 30, 2006 - 01:15am PT
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I have an HP printer version of "Girl with a Pearl Earring" by Vermeer. On the computer I have an overlayed version, with lines to help in analyzing the complex composition. The celebrated Golden Ratio (1.6180:1) is right there, as are numerous horizontal and vertical connections between prominent focal points.
I also have a poster of Van Gogh's The Starry Night, which is quite easy on the eyes.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2006 - 01:45am PT
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This is really fascinating you guys. Lots of art buying and trading, but not much action in galleries from this group.
The first time I fell in love with a piece of art, it was a sculpture in Jack Zajac's Falling Water series. I had to have it. It was seven feet tall, bronze, and a deal at just $70,000.00. I don't own it yet. I collect local art when I travel and support local artists, especially indigenous artists as much as possible.
I ask about this because I'm considering restructuring my art career and am curious about how people buy art and process it in their minds. It's hard to ask your customers these questions. The thing I'm most curious about is why people don't buy a piece of art they have fallen in love with. Price? Trust? Investment? Mistrust of their own judgement and emotional decisions? It's strange but I think people have a hard time spending money on things that fulfill thieir spirit or emotions, but have no "practical" purpose or need. Keep it coming...
(btw, friends have helped me out many times over the years by buying art at key moments in time when I really needed it. Thanks. You know who you are.)
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sandstone and sky
Trad climber
AK
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Jul 30, 2006 - 06:00am PT
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I didn't use to, other than the occasional beer poster or climbing calendar.
Then my wife bought an art gallery.
We have some art now.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 30, 2006 - 09:02am PT
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I do check out galleries when I travel, always looking for "something" but seldom buying. Either it doesn't grab me, I can't afford it or it would be too hard to take home. Fortunately, the galleries don't count on me to survive.
In St. John's, Newfoundland, I saw an exhibit of David Blackwell's etchings and coveted this one, "Fire Down on the Labrador."
But I went home empty-handed after learning that one print had just sold for $26,000.
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 01:28pm PT
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Jerry-
This is a great conversation, and questions I explore a lot.
I have made my career as a "climbing artist" the last ten years, and still don't have all the answers.
My house is covered in art- about 70% is my own work. This is both gratifying and disgusting. I enjoy my own work, of course; why else would I create it? But if no one is going to buy it, I'd prefer to see it hanging in a friends house and them enjoying it.
I usually buy or trade for friends art. Watercolor, photography and abstract. I also like work that is very different than my own, and styles and mediums I have no motivation to attempt. I have a number of pieces taht were gifts too, which is great.
I sell only 30-40 prints a year which is odd to me. I get so much positive feedback, but when push comes to shove, not many folks commit to buying the originals. So why not a print?
"We love it! WE LOVE IT! WE LOOOOVE IT!" But then, no purchase. Maybe I am priced too high. I often sell paintings to friends at ridiculous cheap prices or just give it to them.
But then there are the folks who just walk up, fall in love and write a check. These people always make me skeptical, but I wouldn't "exist" without them. It's odd when non- climbers/non-nature lovers buy my work...but then it's also my greatest reward. I am looking for universal truths in my work, with climbing/exploration/natural elements as the subject matter.
"It's strange but I think people have a hard time spending money on things that fulfill thieir spirit or emotions, but have no "practical" purpose or need."
I observe this as well. I have watched people look at a painting and cry- touched so emotionally. It speaks to them. The price is affordable. But then..."I just can't. I just can't." Then they walk out to their 35,000.00 car and I think "that's why you can't".
I have been to so many fabulous,huge homes that have their walls covered with "Bed, Bath and Beyond" style art and I am confused. Why not spend just a bit more and have something - original, personal, worth the money, and support your friends, those in your subculture, or locals?
This is not a rant of a frustrated starving artist...just an exploration. I want to continue making the art I do, but I need to feed a family. Like you, Jerry, I am constantly exploring what's next for me as an artist. For me, climbing is an important theme and the nucleus of my personal motivations...but so far has proven to have a limited audience. People rant and rave- but few write the checks.
Publications keep me busy as I want to be, but the income is a fraction of what I bring in from "the real world".
Maybe I should just sell t-shirts....everyone seems to have money for that.
PF
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katie sheehan
Trad climber
YOsemite! www.katiesheehanphoto.com
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Jul 30, 2006 - 01:52pm PT
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Hey Jerry, good question:
Judging by the success of our last auction, climbers definitely buy art...
If you are looking for amazing art on a climber's budget, here is yet another excuse to come to Yosemite this fall:
2006 Yosemite Climbing Association Art Auction!!!!
food, wine, good company and best of all...great climbing and outdoor-oriented artwork. Totally broke? We do a raffle as well.
At The Ansel Adams Gallery the last weekend in October, 2006.
What kind of work do we auction? Check this link:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/898844
xoxoxox
k
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2006 - 02:09pm PT
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Phantom,
Isn't that crazy? You'd think that if a person were brought to tears they would be more compelled to buy it, but maybe they just aren't ready to face the emotions that the artwork brings. Occasionally I get a phone call or visitor who was in my gallery a long time ago and ask about a specific piece that moved them. They will remember exactly where it was on the wall and the emotion of feeling of the image, but not necessarily the exact image. It takes a while for them to come back sometimes, but they buy it. The hard part is staying in business long enough for them to come back and find you. Gotta keep them on your mailing list and send promo pieces out to keep in their minds.
I like to have a few climbing pieces on the wall as conversation pieces because they are such a core foundation of my art, but I don't expect to sell them. Landscapes of the same places sell nicely, but if there is a climber in there, its a picture of somebody else's experience. People may not remember my name, but they will remember me as "that climbing photographer" when they come back years later and want to show their friends.
Until I opened a shop I had my art everywhere at home. Now we have all kinds of other stuff up from our friends, travels, etc. -Art that brings back fond memories or experiences. My work stays at work.
Katie, I meant to donate last year but missed it. Will participate this year. Climbers are resourceful and will pony up when its for the right cause.
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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Yes, I do have the "remember that one piece you did like 4 years ago? It had a lot of orange in it?"
Yes, climbing imagery is tricky.
Although I am addicted, it's hard to put climbing photos up on my wall that I did not take, or were not taken of me, or are of a place I have never been. For me, it has to evoke a memory.
Even as a climber, I'm much more apt to purchase work that is outside my world(non-climbing based). I have a camera on me at all times while traveling, and have a lifetime of shots of friends in beautiful places...but you, as a professional have taken the time to be in the right place at the right time and capture images the rest of us only dream of.
That said, my favorite photo work is abstract or artistic landscape. With people in it, it often becomes too specific. Especially faces. For instance, I love your travel gallery, but the imagery of people is just too specific. If up on my wall, visitors would ask "who is that?" before asking "who's photograph?" then I have to say "I have no idea, but check out the craft of the work".
I don't consider myself a "landscape painter"...but every time I do one it sells almost before the paint dries. Frustrating for me because it is "literalism"-
"Here is a beautiful place, and instead of framing the photo I took, I am instead crafting a painting, recreating the experience." Thus it becomes "decoration" instead of statement. This is why I explicitely do not attempt tromp le'oil art- (fool the eye realism)- let the photographers do this! However, the process and personal experience of creating landscape work is fantastic and I can't ignore it.
I thrive on symbolism, and stories beneath the reality...which sells great in publication...but not so much in homes. I have had to embrace this cold fact. I ahve a gallery show and I am so psyched on sharing stories and metaphors...but then only the literal work sells.
Of your work, I am most drawn to your sonoma coasts...maybe because of places that is where you are most intimate, and have the most room to experiment. This is apparent.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
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That's interesting. Certainly this is where I have the most freedom to experiment. Unlike Yosemite, Big Sur, Tahoe, San Francisco, the Eastern Sierra, etc., I have no preconcieved ideas of how it's supposed to look based upon other artisits work, so don't keep regurgetating the same subjects (like Half Dome, bristlecone trees, Emerald Bay, and slot canyons). It's more of a fluid experience, following light intead of iconic subjects. It's my most developed body of work I think, and my customers find such a connection between the images and their personal experiences here. It's amazingly difficult to capture the ultimate beauty though. Peak moments of light are very short and unpredictable. I sell mostly local work locally. Most of my sierra work is up in Truckee in the Vrooman Art Gallery. Check it out if you're up there.
My website is ready for another major update. Lots of new work coming soon. :-)
Lets see some Phantom paintings...
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 03:09pm PT
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another passing thought on climbing photography.
It is fairly rare that I see a shot that is altogether-
an artistic statement, fantastic craft, and univeral beauty all in one. They are usually just too specific. But when it hits- WOW! It's spectacular.
I appreciate the truth of capturing an "honest moment"...but sometimes it is much more artistically beautiful to see a posed, pre-planned, light enhanced shot.
And another thing...I have seen some insanely beautiful bouldering photos...but then I come to realize...how silly is that? A muscle bound dude on a ten foot tall piece of rock. A micro audience.
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 03:21pm PT
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"...following light instead of iconic subjects."
I love this statement.
My website is ancient, and hugely useless.
[url]http://jercollins.com[/url]
You can see my work in Rock & Ice, and Alpinist.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2006 - 03:26pm PT
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Simon Carter gets it I think. He has a great blend of the landscape and climbing experience.
This is still my favorite climbing shot (that I've taken). C-Mac on Day 5 of a first ascent in Zion. I sell it all the time in small sizes, and have sold five or six 30x40 prints, plus some 20x30 and 16x20s.
It has been compared compositionally and iconographically to this Adams image. I wasn't thinking about that when I took it. It just worked out that way. (no, I'm not saying I'm as good as Adams. Monolith is way better!)
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 03:35pm PT
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I agree; Simon has some of the strongest images I have seen.
I love the Zion shot. Awesome that folks are buying prints that large. What a presence that image must make at that size!
This is more of what I mean by "no specific"- C Mac is not the focus- the light, the contrast, the rock are the driving influences of the piece. the fact that it's an FA is impressive and interesting to us as climbers, but can also have universal appeal.
Not to hijack, but- here's my favorite Zion shot and my best artistic achievement to date.
Zion Michael Ray...born five days ago!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2006 - 03:35pm PT
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Sick man! I love your work. Amazing. My mind just doesn't work like that at all.
"Publications keep me busy as I want to be, but the income is a fraction of what I bring in from "the real world"." Thats too bad. Maybe you should quit your day job and push harder at your art. On the other hand, I keep thinking about getting a "real" job so I can get ahead. The overhead can kill you. Amazing how much you can gross, and still net so little.
Whoa! Congrats on the little guy. Thats 5.14+ R VII . Keep your day job.
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 03:42pm PT
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"Maybe you should quit your day job and push harder at your art. On the other hand, I keep thinking about getting a "real" job so I can get ahead. The overhead can kill you. Amazing how much you can gross, and still net so little."
HAH!
Here's the deal...my "day job" is creating climbing imagery for publications- books and magazines.
This IS my art.
I have fought getting a "real job" for a long time. I want so bad to continue doing what I do.
By the "real world" I mean ANY work I take on that is not climbing related. Much like you selling a landscape photo, it is the non climbing art that allows me to create climbing art. Always trying to find the balance.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2006 - 03:55pm PT
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Great Jeremy. Keep up the good work. It's inspiring that you're doing so well working for pubs and making a living, even having kids!
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Phantom Fugitive
Trad climber
Misery
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Jul 30, 2006 - 04:00pm PT
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thanks. haha...we'll see...mommy is not working now...time to step it up! Sadly that may mean stepping out.
edit: eesh! that sounded bad! NOT stepping out on family...stepping out on the job I love. daddy has to bring home the bacon now.
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cabeza_largo
Trad climber
WV
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Jul 30, 2006 - 05:50pm PT
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Here are my two picks:
Works from Jeremy Collins (varied, sometimes dark & intense, other times humorous, always great)
For photography:
http://www.shullphoto.com/
(Great stuff)
edited to add:
Both talented artists.
Both talented climbers.
P.S. Don't own any photographs from http://member.newsguy.com/~climbing/ but his (Karl Baba's) photographs are impressive.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Jul 30, 2006 - 05:59pm PT
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I can't afford to buy the paintings that I like. However, I have purchased a few photos that adorn my office and home.
2 Galen Rowell
2 Jerry Dodrill
1 Ansel Adams
I'd like to buy something by David Doubilet next. An underwater photographer with mad skillz.
http://www.daviddoubilet.com/
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Jul 31, 2006 - 01:25am PT
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1. What is on your walls?
Some of my design instructor's silkscreen posters, my own clunky work from yesteryear, and some stuff done by relatives.
2. Do you collect art?
No
3. What medium do you like best/own most of? Why?
Paintings, I guess. I feel that photographs often say too much, and reveal little about the artist. I guess this is due to the fact that I've drawn and painted since I was a kid, and can maybe appreciate more of the effort that goes into it. I'm a sucker for process and concept, which doesn't seem as evident in a lot of photography.
4. Do you own original art, or are posters/reproductions good enough?
Primarily originals.
5. Have you ever spent more on a piece of art than the cost of your television?
Probably, but my current tv was free.
6. Do you own any original climbing art, including fine photography/paintings/sculpture, etc.?
No, not really.
7. Do you support artists you know by buying their artwork?
No. However, in my line of work as a designer and art director, I occasionally commission/select photographers and illustrators (commercial) as appropriate... if that counts.
8. Have you ever bought art from a gallery?
I dont' believe so.
9. How many times a year do you go into a gallery?
Hardly ever, unless you consider a museum a gallery.
10. Do you prefer to buy directly from the artist?
Probably.
11. What is the most you would ever consider spending on any piece of art?
Hard to say. I'm sure it sounds selfish, but I'd rather just make my own, though I'm extremely inspired by great art.
12. What factors influence your decision to buy/not buy art? (personal tastes, price, size...)
Again, I don't believe I've ever purchased art for myself. It's hard to justify the expense, when there are so many practical purchases that must take priority. If I really really like something I see, than truthfully, I'll never forget it, so why buy it? :) (I would, however, quite readily buy a book/monograph of an artists work. Come to think of it, that would have been a good question to include in your survey. Do books ever make money for artists, Jerry? I'm sure it depends...)
13. What is your favorite piece of art, or who is your favorite artist? Why?
I've never really had favorites, but man is there a lot of talent out there - both dead and alive!
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