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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
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There is no such thing as "free healthcare."
Canada, Western Europe, and some of the first-world parts of Asia all have the kind of healthcare system you want, Jim. But it ain't free.
It's far better than what you have in the US, but it is not free. We (us Canadians and Germans and Swedes and etc) all pay for it. We all understand that we pay for it. Just as we understand that we pay for highways, police, fire, armed forces, national parks. And it makes our countries better.
But the part of this whole deal that those who scream "socialized medicine" don't understand is that it makes our countries better for the rich as well as for the poor. Does anyone with a functioning brain think that rich businessmen in Germany dream of ways to get rid of the country's universal healthcare system?
Those of us looking at the Affordable Care Act from the outside understand that its biggest flaw is that it doesn't do enough. Your home-grown neanderthals think it goes too far.
Single-payer is the right approach for healthcare, just as it is for providing police, highways, and national parks.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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Incredible that ppl can argue with the OP statement. That is super f*#ked up.
It's only fukked up because you don't understand the argument. Free healthcare is not what we need, that goal is impossible. Someone's going to pay for it and it's not going to be the super rich most of you are envisioning. It's going to be paid by the healthy 25 to 40 year olds who already work their asses off struggling to gain a foothold in this competitive world. What we need is affordable healthcare which the ACA only provides for some. For the rest it's astronomically expensive.
What is needed is good old free market competition. Not some huge government bureaucracy which can only totally f*#k it up in the best case scenario.
I'm 34 years old and I will never be able to "afford" 800 dollars a month for healthcare. Period!
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
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Hey Mr. D I thought you were going to stick to OT threads (meaning climbing).
Did you fall off the wagon?
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So universal health care = socialism?
Universal education = the same?
Who paid for you to learn to read and write?
Darn those commies.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
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Ghost,
How much do Canadians and Germans and Swedes contribute to medical R & D compared to the U.S.?
There's more to healthcare than just hiring an orderly to be there with Grandma ( and every other patient in the same hospital room ) when she dies.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
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How much do Canadians and Germans and Swedes contribute to medical R & D compared to the U.S.?
Same as you Chaz. Or did you think that outside the US there were no universities,
or pharmaceutical companies, or teaching hospitals, or...
Ah, f*#k. What's the point. Trying to talk to someone with Stars'n'stripes
blinders on is about as useful as talking to Mighty Hiker with his Maple-leaf
blinders on.
Go spend some time outside the US (no, not a two-week vacation) and then
come back and we'll talk.
Hmmm... Wait a minute. You do travel to the Seattle area from time to time, right?
So look me up next time you're here and we'll talk about it.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
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Free, anything
I'll bet you are a believer.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
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I'm already doing that to pay for my own healthcare.
Wait till Obamacare fully kicks in.
You thought , like millions of Americans, that Obamacare would result in someone else paying for your health care.
Hahahahahaha.
You've been conned and manipulated by a master political sociopath.
Obamacare is not an altruistic project to deliver affordable health care to Americans, it is a scheme to gain control over individual citizens by a power hungry narcissistic government bent upon totalitarian outcomes.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
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It would take the cost off the back of business & allow U.S. industry to compete with the rest of the world.
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Deekaid
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
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photo bombs on every page please
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
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how in the F*#K can you think obama's signing a market based system developed by romney and tweaked into GOP congress passable implimentation by paul ryan as a win for socialism?!?!?!?!?!
Romneycare and Obamacare are two totally different entities. That is why Massachusetts opposed Obamacare from the beginning. Look it up if you don't believe me. There are major key differences.
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sempervirens
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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aw feck, i'll bite....
Anti-socialists, What country do you want to live in that has a free market? Do you honestly believe US has a free market? Do you believe USSR was socialist? And Obama created Obamacare, why? Was it because he and his funders care so much about the poor? Or is it because of his socialist ideals? You're naïve.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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Health care cost reform goes hand in hand with socialized medicine.
Single payer system, flat tax. Done deal.
Then we need to attempt to cleabn up government corruption. I look at government now a days a just a con artist continually ripping off tax payers. I work construction doing all types of public works projects and the waste is insane. It seems deliberate.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
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as well as free access to other things that keep us mentally and physically healthy (sane)....climbing, skiing, kayaking (I need a new one, sit on top)backpacking, sailing, music lessons....just to name a few.
Bet it would cut down on people needing healthcare. :)
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
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bunch of entitled pussies - "We want climbing grants ... and healthcare"
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
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For years now Obama lied outright to the American people. He told them they would be able to keep their individual plans when he damn well knew that the Insurance companies would be forced to cancel these plans under the requirements of this law.
He knowingly and intentionally lied in order to get reelected. Today at his press conference he compounded this sociopathic lie now that everyone knows the facts.
Millions of Americans have been affected adversely by this socialistic scheme to curtail their freedoms and extend the role of an incompetent, elitist-controlled government in their lives.
Obamacare is not an attempt to provide affordable health care to the American people , it is a project by the radical left to gain control of 1/6 of the American economy and to expand the control of the Federal government over the lives of individual Americans.
Obama and his extremist supporters want nothing less that total control of health care access in the US.. A single-payer system is what they are incrementally striving towards, in which the federal government , run by themselves of course, will be in complete control of people's health needs and services.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
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jghedge has it wrong again.
Donini has more climbing experience than he'll EVER have.
Climbing harder than he'll EVER climb.
Oh, did he say something????
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
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Our current system is the problem-----and people that deny problems with our healthcare system have their own reasons to be in denial.
This link and report from NBC News, about an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association is for the rest of us.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/what-makes-u-s-health-care-so-overpriced-its-not-2D11582695
And even though the U.S. spends $2.7 trillion a year, nearly 18 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), on health care, it’s not keeping up with the rest of the developed world when it comes to improving people’s health.
“It does show pretty clearly that price is the culprit here,” Dr. Hamilton Moses of the Alerion Institute in Virginia and Johns Hopkins University told reporters.
“Based on this review…the U.S. ‘system’ has performed relatively poorly,” Moses and colleagues wrote in the report, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Their findings echo what other experts have found – U.S. health care gives little value for the money.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
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Still way cheaper? Hahahaha
You might want to do a little less posting and a little more thinking there.
No need to think when the facts state that this is true and is a real problem in Mass.
Go back to your delusional world Hedgy. Must be nice in fantasyland.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
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donini drops a turd in the punchbowl and runs away giggling
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