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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jul 13, 2006 - 03:29pm PT
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"we found ourselves in serious parel"
I hope I don't every find myself in parel...
where is that anyway?
"Hell, I even thought I was dead once, but I found out I was just in Nebraska." - Little Bill, Unforgiven
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Jul 13, 2006 - 06:21pm PT
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OK, O.K., Mr A.A. Thanks for spelling it out. I don't deny that he attempted to blame it on someone else. But should he inherit abandonment and mockery from the climbing community for the sins of childhood? I believe the posts went beyond the pall of righteous scolding or objective argument. Most were condescending or just plain arrogant. Yeah, it's fun, funnin with your friends on supertopo forum, but remember, this guy might be reading along , too. Yeah, lets put him in the penalty box. For how long? The BIG question is; are we going to beat, mock and scorn him while he's in the box and intensify his insecurity and his need to project blame on to others.
Here we have mountaineering as competitive sport. Do you like it that way? If so, continue the derision and mockery. If you don't, give the guy a little help.
(It's not hockey, it's not Gaza, it's not a Wyoming bar, it's called CLIMBING!)
Yes, dear Dirtineye, who be not afraid of class 4 with 25 pound pack. May I, humble and unworthy Jennie, salute your comfort and nonchalance in the High, Hard Places without being accused of sarcasm? Were you born into that glorious comfort zone or did you attain it through experience? I believe our pilgrim in question was a novice---please correct me if I'm wrong. Most beginners are uneasy with exposure. If you were worthy enough to skip your apprenticeship in climbing then you may not understand THE FEAR OF FALLING!
Walking a rail might be class 1 or 2. Walking a rail, fifty feet off the ground is still class 1 or 2. But is there a difference? And is that difference more intense to a novice?
I've never been on Mt Whitney, either in its mountain, MOUNTAIN or F*#KING MOUNTAIN state. I've been on the Grand Teton about forty times, including the trips I got beat off the mountain or just plain chickened out. Have you, by chance, done the Owen Spaulding route on the Grand? The easiest "path" to the top. The ledge between the Belly Roll and the double chimney is known as the Crawl. The rangers say it's class 4 but it's really closer to class 3. Thousands of feet of air between your heels and the grey rocks of Valhalla Canyon.
As you might expect, experienced climbers pass it routinely but cautiously. Novices are another matter. Some freeze, some shed tears, some simply turn around and go down. (As I did the first time). Call you Unconvinced, dear Dirtineye? If you slip here we may be forced to call thee Dear Departed!
Again, I don't know Mt Whitney. -and as you can likely perceive, I'm not in the "climbing elite". But if some hot shot had told me that the Grand was a "walk-up" and I came to the Crawl, I might be a little irate myself. If you're familiar with Mt Whitney, set me straight, could these people have taken a long fall at the places in question, 25 pound pack or not? Class 4 doesn't mean the same thing everywhere, every time.
And if it matters, yes, you offended me. But don't start feeling special because half the posts on this thing have the ingredients to offend. But then, you guys like it that way. Funny how testosterone drives some to excellence and others to aggression.
And, answering your question, Salt Lake City is in Utah. I would have expected it to be near the top of your states to offend list. If you haven't offended anyone from Utah yet, you may have dirt lodged in your hard drive as well as your eye. But don't take offense at me now, I think it's a real cute name!
And, sadly, relunctantly, now I must shed my garments of contention and bid fond farewell, dear competitors, accusers and posers, (for at least two days) Its called CLIMBING!!
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 07:21pm PT
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Christ Jennie, even Dingus was nice to the poor slob over at Summitpost. Besides, it all just part of the initiation ritual. If he can't take that little bit of ridicule he is never gonna make it as a hard dude. You should see the abuse it takes to climb with the big boys!
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andanother
climber
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Jul 13, 2006 - 08:50pm PT
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Jennie,
You wrote a book, and still missed the point.
Some people open their eyes and learn, others just freak out and rant on the internet. Who am I referring to? I'll let you decide.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:06pm PT
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Somebody once said with a glint in his eye:
"There's nothing more fun than a mormon girl in her dirty phase."
Jennie, you're just a barrel of monkeys. How's Salt Lake these days?
(No offense to all the upstanding Mormons in this fine community.)
Mountaineers Route = mountaineering. Duh. Should have taken the touron route.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:18pm PT
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Thanks, Shortimer. Your three sentences tell me more about what's going on than everything else I've read here. "Initiation ritual?" I wondered why you guys were all pickin each others navel, acting like buffalo, then like sheep. Stupid, naive me!
I apologize for being in the wrong place. I just climb for pleasure.
I'll leave you gentlemen be with one last preach: I'm pleased that Dingus was "nice" to the "poor slob". But respect is a prerequisite of any healthy human relationship. Without respect, "nice" means nothing!
I better get to the mountains, I'm throwing disrespect myself. May your time be long, Shortimer, thank you. (And I'll sure be giving thanks, now, that I'm not invited to climb with the "big boys")
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BPorter
Big Wall climber
Quartz Hill, Ca
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:20pm PT
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Hey Boys,
Haven't been around for a while, but it is refreshing to see that the "all knowing" ST Clan hasn't lost its knack for self-righteous sermonizing and scolding. Funny how most if not all of the ST Clan had similar experiences while "growing up" but prefer to cast it in the light of experience gained and not a Noob/Dumbass screw up. Still looking for those with a little humility and understanding.
Cracko
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BPorter
Big Wall climber
Quartz Hill, Ca
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:28pm PT
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Nice try Juan, but you're one of the reasons I lost complete interest in this site and wandered off. Hope you find what you're looking for.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:29pm PT
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I'd rather read his rant than his obituary.
Jennie, I don't mean to pick on ya. Sure you're a nice gurl, and I think new here. But you might note that hair, including eye lashes, falls out when you're going through high doses of chemotherapy, and you get all kinds of dirt in your eyes.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2006 - 09:51pm PT
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Ok, I will play nice.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 13, 2006 - 10:57pm PT
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Dear jennie (AKA ANN C, cause only she would think Jody is clear headed),
HURRAY! I can cross "Offend a Utah woman" off my list then!
As for my climbing 'apprenticeship', You really don't want to know. You might say I skipped it haha.
As for dying, I'm working on it, don't rush me.
I did climb this (again) a few weeks ago, not very difficult unless you are taking chemo, I'll admit, but I am, so it was. But it is a jug haul, and I will be happy to don a 25 pound pack and do it again, just to make a further mockery of that bozo/troll you seem to like so much.
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reddirt
climber
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Jul 13, 2006 - 11:44pm PT
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Jennie: you are and/or will be karmically challenged. I feel kinda sorry for you.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:16pm PT
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Don't be that hard on the poor girl.
What she and many do not realize is that many of the 'big boys' will climb with anyone who is nice and won't get em killed. In fact most of the 'big boys' I know put their pants on one leg at a time, and don't really think of themselves as big boys at all, but rather as regular folks who love to climb.
Maybe I'll meet one with a big head or attitude problem some day, but so far that distinction goes to the bitter wannabes and never-weres, or just plain punks, who either think THEY oughta be 'big boys', or that the 'big boys' are some sort of gods who need deference and reverence or something.
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:50pm PT
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Dingus,
You are absolutely right, and I'm laughing my ass off !! Within my own climbing circle, which consists mainly of my brothers, I'm a notorious basher of Noob behavior. Guess I'm feeling guilty in calling for more understanding on ST. At any rate, the bros and I are heading for the Tetons later this month for some serious Noob activity. Guess meat's back on the table boys !!!!!
Cracko
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BrentA
Gym climber
estes park
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:58pm PT
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I wanna meet the climber boy that jaded Jeannie like this. LOL.
Way to take a stand against internet lambasting.
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skotty
climber
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:31pm PT
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Interesting thread. An entertaining roast, but to be honest I was a little disapointed not to find anything useful here about climbing; but from what I can tell I guess this site is more of a chat room than an informative forum.
For those of you who read only the parts of my original posts that you wanted to see, I thought I would repost a couple things you probably overlooked:
"If you have been doing any research you will no doubt find information about the unusually long-lasting winter-like conditions on Whitney this year"
(I was aware of the conditions in general, but not specifically on the very short chute portion of the route. The intent of my post was to provide supplemental specifics and a qualifying anecdote so that others wouldn't make the same mistake I did.)
"However, CONSIDERING OUR limited technical rock climbing experience, our 25 pound packs, and not being able to see from where we were if the rocks even provided a climbable route to the summit, this was a STUPID DECISION on OUR part. WE QUICKLY CAME TO REGRET IT . . .we quickly scurried to the summit plateau to thank Rob profusely and ADMONISH OUR STUPIDITY for not turning back at the notch. . . . MY combination of OVER-RELYING ON RESEARCH and this being my third ascent of Whitney, I WAS DEFINITELY GUILTY OF "MENTAL GYMNASTICS". . . .I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. . . .in the end; teaching me that having a handful of 14ers and a plethora of minor summits and cross country treks under one's belt does not make one a mountaineer."
(Not taking personal responsibility? Maybe I should have wrote it like this: WE MADE A STUPID DECISION. THE DECISION WAS OURS. THE DECISION WAS STUPID. WE REGRETTED OUR STUPID DECISION. WE ADMONISHED OUR STUPIDITY. I WAS GUILTY OF MENTAL GYMNASTICS. I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. I thought saying it several times in a supportive narrative was enough, but I guess some people needed to overlook all this to construct their strawman.)
"If you're an experienced technical rock climber and/or if you have ropes, anchors, etc. the current conditions beyond the notch probably wont be an issue for you.
(Perhaps I should have prefaced this post with this sentence followed by: ", in which case this post isn't for you." As a side note, positive posts and personal emails from newbies thanking me for the clarification on this part of the route outnumber derisive posts three-to-one. If it kept even one person out of danger, it was worth being the strawman for some to bolster themselves with.)
Hope this helps clarify some misconceptions. Honestly (no sarcasm), no hard feelings, I understand that some people get bored and need someone tease for entertainment or to build themselves up. Personally I prefer climbing.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2006 - 02:51pm PT
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Skotty,
If you live near Los Angeles and want to get some free instruction on using ropes and setting anchors maybe we can get together at Stoney Point.
I would be happy to teach you the basics of belaying, anchors, etc.
We have all done stupid things in the Mountains that on a bad day would have killed us.
I myself had the local SAR team looking for me after a chain of idiotic decisions two years ago.
Welcome to the Supertopo. Beware of Lois and Rajmit.
Juan
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:53pm PT
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Dingus wrote: "that germen farfignoogin word about misery loves company"
Schadenfreude. Literally: joy at another man's misery. A fine word for the topic at hand.
GO
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:02pm PT
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I thought it was pretty funny too.
DMT you say it best...
Your best friends will really roast you.....It has always been like this and will always be so.
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skotty
climber
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:09pm PT
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Juan,
That's an awesome offer! I actually do live in the Los Angeles area, but unfortunately my girlfirend and I just signed up and paid a deposit for just such training at Joshua Tree. Of course I'd prefer the free advice;-), but the deposit's non-refundable.
I am looking for some good mountaineering/glacial rescue courses for fall if you or anyone else has any suggestions in So. CA (I'm only finding No. CA stuff so far) I'm all ears.
Thanks again for the offer!
s
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