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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 01:18pm PT
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hahaha... Pretty good analogy, Ed! =)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:21pm PT
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Ed - never give up hope! If a wanker like me can somehow claw his way to the top of El Cap, then *anyone* can. I have no real climbing talent and substandard-sized bollocks, but I am just too stupid to give up.
I have no further word on Ammon, Ivo and Dean except what I saw last night. I hope they made it OK, a hard pitch in the dark after so long on the rock would be pretty serious stuff.
Blaine - I actually did step out of free climbing retirement on Cosmos. Tom loaned me his free climbing shoes - it's amazing what you can do with sticky rubber. My wall shoes have both toes blown out, and that duct tape on the soles holding them together doesn't really make for the greatest friction, eh? The topo said it was 5.8 - it was *gripping* {shudder} I *almost* reached for the hooks, but chose the Road More Travelled. Ya Hoser.
Teth - I'm not ignoring you! Will respond when I get home!
Gunkie - please remind me next week, and I'll write some detailed beta on rappelling Lurking Fear. For People Like Me [who climb like they dance] and wrestle enormous pigs, rapping LF is the Better Way down from Thanksgiving Ledge. It is not for everyone, however - meeting another party or two en route could scupper your plans. My first time with Cybele, she got hosed, and it was a 12-hour ordeal. This time with Tom we did it fairly quickly, and it was just under seven hours. I don't expect you could go much faster with two guys and two pigs. If you are travelling light and fast it would probably be better to hump your pig over the slabs and down the East Ledges. The diagonal raps are tricky, too, when you are riding two hundred pounds of piggage. I'll tell you how to do it easily, however.
darod - {sigh} Yes. Arg. I will be publishing a VERY detailed report about Wings of Steel. Tonm and I had the opportunity to spend a week with Mark Smith and Richard Jensen, and not only are they two of the nicest, coolest and most class-act guys you could ever hope to meet, I am convinced that they put up arguably the hardest route on El Cap. Truly what they accomplished on Wings Of Steel was so far ahead of its time - and still is! - that the climbing community was unable to comprehend it, and manufactured its own version of the truth which has endured to this day.
This, however, is about to change. I'm going to publish a detailed essay of my observations and interactions with Mark and Richard, and tell you what I found on Wings of Steel.
As for how did I do on Wings? Well, see the comment above about the size of my bollocks...... They may be small, but they are INTACT.
Cheers,
Pete
BWP
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jack herer
climber
chico, ca
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:29pm PT
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With all the talk about the ritcent being so hard, didn't chris mac lead that crux pitch when he was 17 and downrated it to A4 but printed A5 in the guide to please the masses. I cant see a pitch still being A5 after 9 or 10 ascents.
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yo
climber
I'm so over it
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:36pm PT
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Try 30 ascents. Maybe the monkeys brought ST's own Mike. to cruise the Reticent crux on accident. hahah
Reticent in a push is so bad I don't even know what to say. Is this badder than PSD IAD? Wow.
(Thanks for the various updates, Pete.)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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Like, yer welcome, eh? Sorry, the updates end today, as I am heading home tomorrow.
The crux pitch of Reticent was most assuredly legit New Wave A5 on the first ascent, and probably still was in 98 when we made the eighth ascent. It is also the sort of pitch that lends itself to staying this hard. Here's why.
What I recall of the pitch is that it starts out with expando nailing and decent Aliens. You are climbing above a sidewalk-sized ledge. After a bit [can't remember, thirty feet?] you climb a diagonal-leaning downward-facing crack that now accepts heads. Steve Gerberding told me that on the first ascent, he used beaks, but it's now beat out to heads. Certainly these first two sections of the climb will now be easier.
After that, you hook across up and left on top of a rather wobbly and loose flake. While you can place small stoppers behind the thing for "pro" I doubt it would hold a fall. Back when we climbed it, it looked as though it was about to fall off. Since it hasn't yet, it's probably more solid than it appears.
After this, Warren Hollinger told me you find "the only two anchors on the pitch" - these consisted of a good #3 fixed head, and a good blue Alien on the left in a small and entirely solid vertical crack.
After this stuff is where the real meat and potatoes starts. You start hooking up and right for a frighteningly long distance up a dead vertical to slightly overhanging wall on entirely natural hook placements which are quite small and scary. The McTopo notes that some piton placements are available here, but when I cleaned this section after Chris led it, the pins that he placed were junk. He put them in as "pro" but didn't even use them for aid because he was afraid to weight them! As for the hooking, hell, I couldn't even see where Chris hooked the placements are so small.
After this long hooking section, there is a loose-ish crack to finish.
The point of all this is that it could well remain New Wave A5 over this crux section, because:
1. No drilled or enhanced placements
2. Possibility of falling and ripping darn near the whole pitch
3. The certainty of hitting the sidewalk-sized ledge after falling over a hundred feet
That being said, I asked Ammon about the pitch. "It's not as hard as it used to be, Pete."
So I look forward to hearing what Ammon has to say about the pitch, and the whole adventure!
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darod
Trad climber
South Side Billburg
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:58pm PT
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Thanks Pete, I can't wait to hear your report on WoS, hopefully it will bring some closure/justice to this whole fiasco.
And congrats on your ascent of Cosmos!
Cheers,
darod.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:07pm PT
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Thanks, mate. Cosmos was a cool route, from the fifteen-foot-tall raven's nest to the fifteen-foot-tall block we trundled! We have replaced a bunch of the rusty old quarter-inch bolts at the belays with shiny new stainless 3/8-inch ASCA bolts. All drilled by hand, no power but elbow power for us.
Yes, it is time to bring closure to Wings of Steel. Richard and Mark will be fully vindicated. Ammon will support all this, too, and hopefully climb the route in full.
The whole Wings of Steel thing is the most fascinating study in human nature, and how the truth can get so wildly distorted simply because enough people choose to believe what they WANT to believe, rather than what is really there!
The stuff I have discovered will blow you away - you will be shaking your collective heads in disbelief. You will feel the suffering that Richard and Mark have so undeseveredly felt for a quarter-century!
I need to spend a few days thinking about it and writing it, there is simply so much to share! Suffice it to say, those boys were bad to the bone, and pushed climbing so far beyond what the Reasonable Man would do that they entered an entirely different realm, one which remains unpenetrated to this day.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:15pm PT
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So Pete, I've been entirely out of the loop and other than getting an email saying some folks were about to start climbing WOS I never heard more about it and if I owe some beer and wine I need to know where to ship it and I'd like to hear a bit about the whole adventure...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
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You sure don't owe *me* any beer! Big report coming, you'll have to wait a few days....
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:43pm PT
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Pete,
thanks for the update. Like Healyje I was one of your beer sponsors. In retrospect perhaps we should have sponsored mucho beer prior to the ascent? Anyway, glad you had a good time in the valley and are safe and sound. Like many, I look forward to hearing about WoS.
Gary
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:43pm PT
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Pete,
I think you're being WAY too gracious in making comments about how the "truth can get wildly distorted". Very gracious, in deed.
Plain and simple, the entire thing was a smear and fear campaign. More than anything, from what I can tell, because some people felt like their toes got stepped on, with maybe a bit of jealousy, as well, over the fact that someone came along and put up a route where others had failed multiple times.
Regardless, I came away with a lot of the same findings, I'm sure. I saw the route, saw others on the route, stood on the hook moves myself, hung with Mark and RIchard for a few days... We'll talk tonight, Pete. I've also talked with Ammon, at length, about this and his findings. I'll state again that I feel if anyone is going to do an successful SA of this route, it will be Ammon, for sure. To do WoS you need BoS (Balls of Steel).
As for Mark and Richard... Well, I'd have to whole-heartedly agree with Pete. Definitely a class-act, of above average character and all around good guys. Regardless of any of that, they put up a bad ass route and have been done a terrible wrong for more than 2 decades now.
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eddie7
Trad climber
London, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 14, 2006 - 07:37pm PT
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I'm looking forward to the WOS 'essay' as well.
Should be a good read.
Drop me a line when you get back from the ditch Pete.
cheers, eh?
bp.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 15, 2006 - 12:41am PT
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Nice job and Congrats PT.
The Better Way, or the Sign of a Misspent Lifetime? Seems both.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Jul 15, 2006 - 08:52pm PT
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34:58
OOOoaaahhhhhh!!!!
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valygrl
climber
Santa Cruz
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Jul 15, 2006 - 09:02pm PT
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Rad Ammon, congrats to you I & D.
Anna
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BrentA
Gym climber
estes park
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Jul 15, 2006 - 09:06pm PT
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Fuqin sick...just sick. I'm vomitting on myself with self loathing to know there are people alive that do that sort of thing.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 15, 2006 - 09:43pm PT
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Wow,
For "an arm chair has been that never was" like me, this thread was a fun "read"; neat stuff going down.
I was at a meeting in the SAR cache after WOS took place and met those guys at a meeting, more or less mediated by John Dill: where "we", as the incumbent SAR members at hand, collectively nailed them to the cross for overbolting, like an inquisition or something. I do remember they were quite polite fellows and withstood our harangue.
PTPP: this will be an interesting report, straight up.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 16, 2006 - 02:24am PT
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Wow! There's SO much to say here... Did any of the SARs guys, who weren't involved in the rope cutting and shitting on the gear actually go have a look at the route? You can stand at the base, look up at the first few pitches which, incidentally, are the crux of the route, and SEE that it wasn't overbolted. Or did everyone simply take the people's "word for it" who *told* them it was overbolted? Just curious.... There's so much more to say here, but I think it best left to the reports that will be coming out of this.
More than anything, it seems that a mob mentality simply took over and two poor chaps paid the price, for years, for something completely invalid. The whole time, they had the balls to take it "politely" and not reciprocate. Class...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 16, 2006 - 01:32pm PT
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"Overbolting"?!
"You" pathetic wankers. Evidently "you" didn't even bother to GO LOOK AT THE ROUTE to see that it was far from overbolted! It's the hardest, scariest most run-out thing I've ever seen! The REASON the route has not been repeated is BECAUSE it's not overbolted!
Yes, there is indeed so much to say here. Believe me I will have plenty, however before I start to write, I want to gather as much information as possible. [I hesitate to use the word "facts"...] Tarbuster, since you were actually an eyewitness to, and possibly even a participant in, the Inquisition, I would be *very* interested to read more of your recollections. It's not hearsay when it comes from a direct observer like yourself.
See here's the thing - the more I dig into this great mystery, the more amazed I become!
Tarbuster, do you recall who the other Inquisitors were? Are any of them still writing on this forum, and would be willing to offer their recollections? What were the specific accusations against Mark and Richard? How did Mark and Richard respond? Where and when did this event take place? How was everybody arranged? Were you in a circle surrounding the "accused", or were they backed up against a wall? Who did you see as credible, and why? What did you say after Mark and Richard were gone? How did you see Mark and Richard's ascent of Sea of Dreams? How did the community as a whole see Wings of Steel at the time, and say a month or two later, then say several years later? How did the collective "you" see yourselves? Did you fancy yourselves "Valley Christians", "Vulgarians", "Rock Police", something else?
The reason I ask is because this is incredibly fascinating to me! Certain events in climbing are notoriously distorted or even lied about, but it is usually the climbers themselves who lie about what they have accomplished. In the case of Wings of Steel, it is as though the climbing community created its own conspiracy! What I am trying to determine is why - was it a Conspiracy of Intent, or a Conspiracy of Ignorance? I heard that one of the collective "you" - let's call him "Nipsey" - backed off the first pitch of Wings of Steel, allegedly in great fear from a single bolt - is there any veracity to this hearsay?
Please don't misunderstand me, Tarbuster - I am not trying to make you or anyone else look bad. I'm just trying to figure out what the heck happened, so anything you can share would be greatly appreciated.
I feel like an investigative journalist. I want to uncover the truth, whatever it is - the good, the bad and even the ugly. There seems to be a ton of each! I want to set the record straight, to right a wrong that has been hanging over Richard and Mark for a quarter-century. I swear, you could write a whole Ph.D. Thesis on the Wings of Steel thing. Wait'll you guys read some of the stuff I've found, you'll hardly believe it either.
About the only thing I don't find amazing is that Richard and Mark responded politely.
In continuing amazement,
Pete
P.S. Nice send, Ammon, Ivo and Dean! Arrrrrr!!!! I think it took us eleven days to climb Reticent back in '98!
Shouted from Dihedral Wall at Wings of Steel during the First Ascent:
"Hey! Why don't you try using a hook?!"
Richard, completely gripped and looking at another epic 40- or 50-foot fall:
"I am on a hook!"
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darod
Trad climber
South Side Billburg
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Jul 16, 2006 - 01:53pm PT
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No can of worms here, simply the truth (finally), and it seems like this one will hurt!!!
There are a few very "respected" climbers that still had very harsh words for these two, just a few months ago, right here in ST. Let's see what they now have to say after Pete publishes his findings.
Can't wait.
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