Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 11:43am PT
|
I still get on hard slab once in a while. I think the reason no one does it anymore is twofold. One, it hurts like hell; it hurts your fingers, it hurts your calves, it hurts your brain. Two, it just isn't as much fun as pulling steep positive holds. Even though I have put many hard slab routes up I don't enjoy doing them as much as I enjoy the steep pull so why should newer climbers?
As to the maximum difficulty, well I personally think that the ratings got a bit compressed in the eighties and if anyone ever does start climbing hard slab again they will re-rate a lot of the harder lines put up. The hardest slab route I was involved in putting up with Kris Solem was 'The Gold Standard' in Courtwright. At 12c it is almost impossible to climb. I got on it again a couple years ago and couldn't get to the top while I can regularly dog my way up 12c sport routes. This was WAY harder! I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these routes popped into the 13s someday.
The other issue is that some of these sorts of routes do get harder as they age. I was talking to Drew in Tuolomne last year and he had tried 'Mystery Achievement' and pulled a few holds off. I went out and looked at it and it may never go again. There were definitely more holds when I did it in 84.
It really is too bad that more people don't slab climbing. Maybe with the resurgence of 'Trad' climbing more people will decide to see what all the fun is about. I mean, you have never fallen until you've slid 40 or 50 feet down a polished granite slab!
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 12:04pm PT
|
or slid down 25 feet of cheese-grater slab then hit the ground, hard. you don't have to tie into a rope to experience hard, scary, dangerous slab climbing. there's a few pretty damn hard slab routes at the horn in the henry mountains that check in at 30+ feet.
new V8 slab established near flagstaff last april:
knee-knocker highball at the horn:
killer moderate highball slab, flagstaff, established last fall:
there's lots of new slabbage happening out there. you guys have your heads in the sand!
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 12:33pm PT
|
Bob is correct that hard slab bouldering is alive and well, but slab lead routes have languished for many years -- for many of the reasons cited above. Though occasional very hard slab moves are also still done on some Big Walls and as part of longer free climbs.
I also agree that grade compression has occured on many of the older test pieces. Hensel and Kevin Powell established some of the most difficult slab routes ever at Suicide Rock. Hensel's Someone You're Not though rated 5.13a is likely harder.
Precise footwork on small holds is an art that many do not learn anymore (and with softer shoes, is easily forgotten/hard to maintain in practice). As a result, slab climbs seem more insecure than in times past.
|
|
G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
|
Shoes are becoming a bit of a problem too. No one is really making board lasted shoes anymore (except 5.10?) and without them doing full pitches of hard slab is almost unbearable. Softer shoes are fine for bouldering but it is almost impossible to have enough foot stamina to do a whole pitch with those softer shoes, and this is even more apparent if you try to stop and drill on stance.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
|
Some interesting thoughts so far. We haven't strayed far into subjective discussions of grading systems, comparative grading (is a 5.12 slab harder than a 5.12 crack?), or what is a slab.
I tend to agree that there's some grade compression of slab routes done in the 1970s - 1980s. I'm not sure how they should be graded, but they're often PDH.
The pictures have all been good, also - I need a slide scanner! Allowing for photo angles, some of the boulder pictures didn't look particularly slabby - although they surely showed friction, balance and other requisites.
One thing about on-sight slab leads: the leader of the first ascent has an experience that no one else can ever have. I don't know if there's any other kind of rock climb you can say that about. A slab first ascent also often takes more effort and time than other kinds of on-sight rock climbs.
I still have pair of Boreal Ballets, resoled with Stealth rubber, for slab and face climbs. And another pair in reserve, so far unused. Maybe Acopa has something that fits this need?
Anders
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 02:56pm PT
|
Seemed like a new slab climbing resurgence was taking place when people started attacking faces using a Bosch pulled up by the second with a pulley snapped to the leader's harness. When power drills were banned in National Parks and Monuments, this kind of new age slab climbing was stopped in its tracks.
I agree about the decline in the kind of shoes available for long slab type leads. The 5.10 Altia, even with cardboard lasts, was the best shoe for combining smearing and dime edges. Nothing around like that today.
Now, I stick to OW because it combines friction with high angle - modern maturity. It's also more like riding a road bike uphill.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
|
This is a great thread!
ablegable had scoped out and put up a bunch of easier slab climbs in and around the Valley... these are "feeder climbs" to the harder stuff, getting people inured at the idea of running out the leads while chanting the mantra: friction is my friend. Sometimes we went back and put in bolts to knock down X protection to not more than R... there are occasional spicy bits that may peak at .10a, but most of the climbing is in the .7 to .9 range.
Hopefully many of these will show up in the new guide book, but I believe that topos may be available from ablegable for those interested...
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 03:22pm PT
|
Thanks, Ed. I thought of entitling this "The Fine Art of Leading Slabs", but people might have confused it with dirtineye's thread from a few weeks back about seconds.
I once did a fair amount of cycling, and found it very good training for slab climbing, and indeed all types of climbing and mountaineering. You get very strong calves.
The more moderate slab climbs at Squamish often puzzle new climbers. Put up with EBs and 1/4" bolts on lead, often on less than clean rock. Now the rock is clean, there's sticky rubber, and new climbers are used to routes established on rappel, with frequent protection. So they ask why there aren't more bolts, e.g. every few metres, or at least bolts at what are now feasible stances but may not have been in the past. A little education and history usually sets them straight. There are a few well-protected slab routes, but even the moderate ones often have long runout sections that are only a bit easier than the crux. As is often observed, you can see what you're getting into from the ground, you can read about it in the guide, and if you don't care for it no one's making you do it.
I was worried the thread might be diverted into a quasi-religious discussion of what is and isn't a slab. Though it does slightly increase the percentage of threads that are climbing-related.
Anders
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 03:29pm PT
|
some of the boulder pictures didn't look particularly slabby - although they surely showed friction, balance and other requisites."
anders, let's say for the purpose of this discussion anything less than vertical (90 degrees), which is also footwork-intensive and requires good crimping strength, is a "hard slab".
for example: "how's yer papa" and "how's yer momma" at josh, along with stuff like "once upon a dime", also at josh, or "blue suede shoes" in the valley, epitomize hard slab. and all these climbs are pretty close to vertical - 80 - 90 degrees.
side note: quicksilver and freewheelin' -- for roped slab, does it get much better than that? ( besides suicide, i mean...)
|
|
G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 03:51pm PT
|
The one thing that did change with the advent of hooking and power drills is that the pro on slab routes did get closer together. Once it became ok to hook, you were no longer faced with the prospect of screaming calves while trying to drill. Add in the power drill and a bolt only takes 10 minutes and it is a 3/8" too. Look at Courtwright for some fine examples of routes put up during this time period, The Gold Standard is 6 bolts and a belay in only maybe 50 feet of climbing but it took 2 days to put up and get a clean ascent. There are some well protected routes on Dutzy Dome too.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 03:55pm PT
|
I agree - if it's less than ninety degrees (vertical), it could be a slab. But doesn't have to be. As for the crimping part - let's ask the resident guru, Crimpergirl.
Anders
|
|
Matt M
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 04:02pm PT
|
shoes are a major gripe with me as well. My megas were ALMOST a perfect slab shoe except that sling shot rand at the heel left you CRIPPLED in pain after several pitches. Hear that Sportiva?!? Make a mega without the sligshot! oh wait - they don't sell it in the USA any more....
shoes can be KEY though. Slab vary a lot and different shoe work on different slabs (smooth slab Glacier Apron, rough slab Squamish apron, Edgy slab TM, etc etc)
I asked my buddy once about his ascent of Hall of Mirrors. How did he climb hard slab and get good at. "You need to become a conesiour of shoes," he said. "I've owned 32 different pairs in my carreer. I used 3 differnt ones on that route and a different one on each foot for one pitch." Sage advise - there are slabs I used my Mocs, slabs I used my miuras and slabs I used my Megas.
Slab Shoe of choice right now? Sportiva Cliffs!
|
|
Matt M
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
|
Now that we seem to have some slab vets on here. (sweet!). Let's discuss the slab topic that never seems to have an answer. Falls. When you're 30+ feet out and looking at the big slide (Me on P3 of Dream On in Squam) my mind focuses on NOT FALLING - Period. Someday as I climb harder stuff (I bailed to U. Symphony and rapped below the 11b when it got too hot - weak sauce was thick that day!) that big slide will come and no one really says "do this" or "do that" Whats' the word from vets who have "taken the big slide"
Regarding angle - I think it need to be less than 80 degrees - even 70. 80 is darn steep and to most seems vertical. Almost all those bouldering shots look like steep, technical face climbs to me. I see this tendency a lot with my younger friends when I boulder - if it's not overhanging they often call it "slabby!" yikes. HArd to define but if your hips are hugging the rock, more often than not, I;d call is steep face not slab.
But back to the good stories... Ahh the time I thought I was on the 3 bolt 5.9 on the upper apron but was really on a Peter Croft 1 bolt 10 = I bailed right and the 40ft between my last bolt and the anchor was the longest lead of my life. I marked every good crystal and moved with care like I've never done before or since. Imagine my despair as my partner PADS up the route not even having the decency to crimp a SINGLE hold. Just smears the thing! That was the only time I bailed because I was mentally drained and actually felt ill. Still, I'll go back and complete it someday....
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 04:48pm PT
|
Slab falls.
1. Don't fall.
2. Don't f*g fall!
3. Don't even think about falling. Like some other things, a lot of slab climbing happens as much in the brain as elsewhere. (Modern climbers may have difficulty understanding that falling is sometimes not a good idea, as even with reliable bolts it can have real consequences.)
4. If you do fall, usually you know it's coming - the deer in the headlights routine. If you can persuade yourself that you're not going to fall, maybe you won't. If you do fall, the suppressed subconscious part that knew it all along will be a bit readier. A "controlled" slab fall isn't a total oxymoron.
5. Slide, never tumble or roll. Rubber is way easier to replace than skin etc - trust me, I also used to bike race.
6. Wear a helmet - if you do tumble, guess what body bit is most vulnerable? Real men wear helmets when slab climbing. Trousers and long sleeve shirts may also be advisable.
7. If the angle is low enough/the fall is short enough/you're fast and nimble enough, you can run. But you may have to run really really fast, and if you trip on something or the rope, you're going to be sorry.
8. Be nice to the second! (Dirtineye: any ideas?) Slab falls often happen slowly enough, with low enough impacts, that an alert and happy second can suck in a fair bit of the rope. Works best with hip belays, ok with belay devices, not so hot with grigris. Although sucking in rope may increase the fall factor, even if it reduces the distance fallen. The leader, in her/his semi-controlled fall, may also be surprised to be pulled up short. But this is a tactic to actively consider.
9. Scrapes, bruises, and lower limb injuries are easily acquired. It's surprising how un-smooth many slabs are, and how many little thingies there are waiting to trip or ding you.
My longest slab fall was 20 metres or so, at Squamish long ago. The spectators cheered and hooted. Which in an adolescent male sort of way discourages falling also.
Anders
|
|
Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 04:55pm PT
|
favorite fall? the "I'm OFF . . . . maybe not"
tipping all the way to standing straight up, no hands, then slowly stopping. oddest moment of balance.
|
|
Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
|
Matt's story from the Apron reminds me of Deep Throat on that lovely piece of stone. If memory serves, there's a 90' 5.9 pitch with a single 1/4" bolt roughly halfway with a ribbon of smoothed over quartz dike for a clipping stance. I recall hitting the dike some distance from the bolt and having to pad over to it aways. Leading, you're hooking these micro edges with your fingernails and paying very close attention. With the blessing of a rope from above and suction faith and friction you can just pad up with palms flat on the stone.
The apron on Squamish Chief is pretty great too, but as noted, a very different flavor from the Glacier Point Apron. We wound up following some line of unknown bolts out right of Unfinshed, only to wind up with some fellow rapping down from above some pitches up scrubbing away -- seems the route wasn't finished yet. Dirty Little White Boys maybe? Hard for sure, but not run out for slab climbing.
Heh, slab thread needs a picture. I think it's Ephemeral Clogdance on GPA.
and the Dike Route in Tuoloumne, a venerable classic.
|
|
pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 05:10pm PT
|
This thread is making my palms sweaty.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 05:19pm PT
|
PF: ROTFLMAO! So true.
Anders
|
|
G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 05:22pm PT
|
For those long slab falls, go back to older gear. There is just nothing better for keeping you upright at the end of that fall than a good swami that has pulled up around your chest. And if the belayer is ok with it a hip belay is ok with me, just make sure you use a biner on both sides of your waist and know how to wrap.
It used to be the rule that you just didn't fall. That mindset got us up those climbs. That is the real trick, just 'don't fall'. On the advice of a good friend I once lead 'Tune Up' in the Meadows. The second pitch has three 40' runouts in a row. The real problem is that the rock is so magnificient and is comprised of little crystal shelves. They are too smooth, point ever so slightly downhill, and are just a little too small, and there is not a good crimper 'thank god!' edge anywhere up there where you can stop and say to yourself that you are safe, for the moment. I couldn't even climb the next day I was so mentally fried. BUT, I didn't fall! There isn't any other venue that teaches you the rules better than Tuolomne Meadows either.
Is the Bachar-Yerian a slab route? Doesn't matter, the rules are the same; don't fall.
|
|
Joe Metz
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2006 - 05:30pm PT
|
I've stopped slab falls by quickly resetting a foot. Taking small steps in desperate situations is also helpful - sliding back to a tenuous position from an even more tenuous situation feels SOOOOO good when the last bolt is way back over the horizon somewhere...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!