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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 30, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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Mountianlion is a manipulative panderer.
I call it like I see it. I'm a moderate, so this sort of discourse is amusing.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
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Dean, if he was as evil as your link implies, he wouldn't have been voted in for a second term.
Do you feel empowered now that your Christian agenda is in the minority?
In a historical perspective, it's quite ironic.
You're a good guy, but I disagree with you. Hope you don't mind.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
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So Dean, put yourself in the White House. Yup, leader of your country. Not absolute ruler, of course, because your power is checked and balanced by the other two branches, but in a position to lead.
In that position, what would you have done about healthcare in the US? Nothing? Just leave it as it was? Government has no business messing with healthcare?
If that's the case, what do you suggest doing about the folks who suffer because they can't afford care? Just say "Who cares?"
It's sort of baffling. You obviously care about some people who are suffering. I think you've worked to build an orphanage in Ecuador, and adopted an Ecuadorian child. But you seem not to care about others. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sure seems like you take a certain joy in watching the suffering of people in your own country -- they're poor, and down-and-out, so they deserve to suffer.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
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When telling a joke, it helps to know that the person is joking. If the undercurrent is mean spirited and people are tired of the cruelty, then they bite back. LIke calling the new healthcare program Obamacare. Its mean spirited.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
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Anyone catch this recent article in Newsweek? (Arguably one of the most liberal forms of print media)
By Matt Patterson (Newsweek Columnist – Opinion Writer)
That article was never in Newsweek. You are lying or naive. Which?
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
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To whom much is given, much is required.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
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Just because others call it Obamacare doesn't make it right. You should know that by now. You are smart enough to know that it is a derogatory term.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
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Ghost, the fact of the matter is, I care deeply.
That's as may be, but doesn't answer the question of "What would you have done if you were in the white house?"
Easy to criticize what you feel is a bad idea, but what is the right idea? Was the healthcare situation in the US just fine in your view? If not, and if Obamacare isn't the right way to fix it, then what is?
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
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People are hurting under the current healthcare program. Yet you want to keep it. You complain that the new healthcare program is unfair because it will hurt you. Why should you expect anyone to care if you hurt, if you don't care if they hurt?
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raymond phule
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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Socialism doesn't work.
This probably depends on what you call socialism. There are many European contries with for example public health care that works well.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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Socialism doesn't work here.
We're already paying for socialism, we're just not getting the socialist services.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
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Ah, so it's about your money. Why didn't you say so in the first place?
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
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Ghost, that is not my area of expertise.
But I do know that you do not try to solve one problem, by creating myriad others.
you also don't solve them by doing nothing.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
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you hate just as much
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
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Socialism doesn't work.
Ah, right, my bad. I'd forgotten about that. About how the US has been totally wrecked by having police, fire, highways, ports, airports, etc etc etc mandated, controlled, and paid for by government.
"Socialism doesn't work" is a total cop-out answer. Most people who are pushing for some sort of government intervention into healthcare aren't rabid socialists, anymore than you're a rabid socialist for wanting a police force, or an army, or a highway.
Is Obamacare the right answer? Not from my perspective. But it's a start, and will perhaps lead to some intelligent discussion, so that maybe, just maybe, in a decade or so, the US will actually have a sane healthcare environment.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
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Thatcher may have been correct over in the UK.
But here, the government has more than enough of other people's money to deliver the greatest socialist utopia ( to the extent it's possible ) the world has ever seen.
Mis-management is our problem. More money won't fix that.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
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You are in for a big wake up call Dean. You aren't suffering for Christ. You are suffering for your wallet.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
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"However, it is unfair to make MOST of us pay DOUBLE (or more) what we pay now, in order to provide health care for others."
We've all been doing this for decades now. That's the whole point.
"Not to mention, it is killing businesses, and subsequently, killing the economy."
Prove it. It's not even in effect yet.
Anecdotal soundbite interviews with rightwing business owners don't count as 'proof'.
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John M
climber
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
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Now that I have you laughing, when are you going to start caring enough to tell your party that more needs to be done or we will end up with the thing that you fear?
People are hurting under the current healthcare program. Yet you want to keep it. You complain that the new healthcare program is unfair because it will hurt you. Why should you expect anyone to care if you hurt, if you don't care if they hurt?
Peoples pain fell on the deaf ears of the Republicans for too long. now this is what we get, a messed up healthcare program.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
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