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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 29, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
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Where are you getting "without crampons" GDavis?
I read it in Dave Roberts K2 book, he had hobnailed soles but didn't wear crampons - rather, cut steps - because of the loss of circulation in strapping them on.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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May 29, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
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If I remember correctly, according to Robert's article in the current issue of Ascent, Weissner did have crampons during his high-point day on K-2, but took them off while he climbed the rocks. At some point a mistake with the rope knocked the crampons off of the pack. Replacement crampons were amongst the items he hoped to find in one of the lower camps for his next attempt.
It is surely not impossible that these were pitons laft from Weissner's first ascent (it was normal practice in Europe and the east back then to leave pitons in place), but they do appear more likely to be WW II Army surplus--especially the ring angle, which were still pretty common when I started climbing in the early '60s.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 29, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
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SGropp- Thanks for the invitation!
Let me see if I can get Dick Long, Jerry Gallwas and Dennis Hennek to come along too and we can have ourselves a grand forgefest with the camera rolling!
Jerry comes up here frequently and the other two are usually up for a good time and both retired, sort of.
Next time you are headed to Seattle give me a call.
Thanks for the clarification Greg and Alan. I could see no good reason to step backwards in time away from crampons even if Colonel Strutt would have been thrilled.
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WBraun
climber
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May 29, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
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Gropp's site- Salamander Forge on Orcus Island.
Beautiful work of art.
It's a dying art in world full of stupid plastic junk full of stupid plastic people.
There's still life in hidden places in this world.
There's so much junk in the world today it's mind boggling.
No wonder everyone is dead ......
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 29, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
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Guido- You garb the two Ds and sail on up there and I'll grab Jerry and meet you.
Maybe Long will lose his job and actually retire if you abduct him. LOL
Orcas is truly beautiful and I am stoked!
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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May 29, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
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Hell yah and we can bring Werner along to stoke the flames!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 29, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
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Good by me!
Werner is always welcome and when they see him out on call with a wrought iron radio holder...HooooooooooooMan!
Way sexier than a silly gun. LOL
The Salamander Forge website is beyond inspiring.
I look forward to meeting you!
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SGropp
Mountain climber
Eastsound, Wa
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May 30, 2013 - 12:38am PT
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Sounds like I let the cat out of the bag, It could be a blast , like a hot iron sushi fest ! I've never made pitons before but have thought about it quite a bit. I'll have to do a few test pieces to get the moves and sequence down.
We could make it a double header, and invite Blomberg over from Lopez Island. He was one of the founding smiths at CMI. They made some well designed and crafted alloy steel pitons at about the same time as the heyday of the GPIW. The last time I saw Greg, he had a mint CMI piton hammer still in the bag. I think that was maybe the first metal handled hammer out there [ late 60's early 70's ? ] Also an early metal shafted ice axe , probably from the first winter ascent of Denali.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 30, 2013 - 01:15am PT
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Greg was more of a grinder than a forger but I would love to meet him. We have been in contact a bit.
Perhaps the exotic location and secrecy might get Chouinard and Frost out of hiding. If you got fishing, you got a chance with YC.
Nice lake up high if I recall correctly but I haven't been out to Orcas since Doe Bay was a commune. LOL
That would be everyone and not out of the realm of possibility at all. What fun!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 30, 2013 - 01:35am PT
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Orcas Island, exotic!!!
I have a bridge in Mt. Vernon for ya...
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adkeditor
Trad climber
Saranac Lake, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
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Thought I'd share one more old piton from Chapel Pond Slab. I took this one on Bob's Knob Standard, the easiest route. The route was established by John Case in 1933, same year Wiessner put up the aforementioned Empress.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 30, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
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That piton is a thing of beauty! How about this 110 year old spike and a few others like it located on The Spike Route at Beacon Rock. As bomber now as the day they were put it, they drilled holes and pounded the spikes in.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 30, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
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Trying to sort out who first sold ring angle pitons first would be a fascinating bit of research if you had access to a comprehensive catalog collection. If you have the ability to close a ring, crimping, drilling and tapering a piece of angle stock is straight forward.
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SGropp
Mountain climber
Eastsound, Wa
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I think instead of tapering a piece of angle iron , they started out with a piece of sheet steel shaped like a narrow piece of pie with the tip cut off. The sheet would have been folded along the long axis and the end crimped together.
As a one off ,this could be done hot with the piece laid over an iron block with a tapered recess using a blunt chisel and hammer to fold the sheet into the tapered groove.
The end could be squeezed together in a vise or press or with a hammer over the corner of the anvil.
In a production setup this could be done cold in several steps with a series of punch presses set up with blanking, forming and crimping dies.
Once the tooling was set up accurately, the eye could be located and punched in the flat sheet before it was folded and crimped.
The ring would have been formed from a short piece of rod, the ends scarfed and then rolled to shape. The ring would have been left open to allow it to be inserted through the eye. The ring would be then closed up , brought to a welding heat, fluxed and forge welded on the face and horn of the anvil .
The weld would be finished off and the ring rounded up over a conical mandrel with a slot in it to accommodate the eye of the piton .
These steps would have to be done surely and quickly by a skilled smith ,as the small size of the pieces involved would lose heat rapidly .
The piton in the OP looks like it was made in this way. There is no obvious joint where the ends of the ring were welded, the scarfed ends closed tight and welded into a solid piece . This could have been a part of a small production run or a custom order from a traditional blacksmith job shop.
The so called '' Army angles'' that were produced in great numbers look like the ring was welded using an electric induction welding process. . This would have allowed for rapid mass production with consistent results.
The next logical step of using the method of folding a precut and punched sheet of alloy steel into an angle piton was an inspired innovation. It allowed a full range of sizes to be made relatively cheaply and quickly . This also eliminated the most skill intensive step of the production process as well as the weakest link [ the ring ]
Who made the first modern angle pitons ? Chouinard ? or did he already take an existing idea and take it to it's most elegant conclusion ?
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whitemeat
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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these are some pics of old pins on the higher spire!
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Found this at the base of the Nose a few years ago. I thought it might be an original Stoveleg made by Bill Dolt but I’m not sure. It was made from some kind of angle steel like stove leg material. The eye is welded like the ones in the Dolt Hut catalog but the carabiner hole is smaller. The edges aren’t rounded like catalog pitons. I sent Frank Tarver these photos and he said it looks like a Dolt and that I should ask him. I had to remind him that Bill has been dead for over 40 years……
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