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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Ahhahhha! But the Mormons built a beautiful Tabernacle with their chipped rocks AND they owned them outright before they touched them with the pneumatic chisel AND (here's the best part) ...............
wait fer it.....
...THEY STILL, TO THIS VERY DAY, LET US CLIMBERS CLIMB ON THEM!!! (Can you say "Little Cottonwood Canyon". Bless their souls and may they all go to heaven - they deserve our thanks! (and I am not a mormon but really appreciate their largess in this thing)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Or you can read the Book of Mormon, which is WAY more accurate. You even get your own planet!
No you DON'T get your own planet, Brother Davis!
Sorry, nothing in Book of Mormon about owning planets, asteroids, countries, or even your own van.
We've been over this before. The planet owning business was speculation on the part of Orson Pratt in the nineteenth century. It's NEVER been doctrine and teaching the tenet in church is prohibited.
You and Weston are going to find yourselves in an excommunication tribunal if you insist on preaching such dogma, sir.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Not even your own Van?
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Matt
Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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It's NEVER been doctrine and teaching the tenet in church is prohibited.
And what is allowed or prohibited TODAY is all we should look at, nothing more to see here, move along...
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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It's NEVER been doctrine and teaching the tenet in church is prohibited.
Is teaching things that WERE past doctrine prohibited? Like plural marriage and the fact that blacks inherited the curse of Caine? I guess if you are going to believe in such fairy tales it isn't that hard to justify changing your beliefs whenever you feel like it. Then you can pull the "official doctrine" card whenever you get backed into a corner.
Or maybe morons have redefined the meaning of "doctrine?" I will stick with M-W for my definitions:
doctrine:
a : something that is taught
I'd say an official member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles (or governing body of the LDS church) teaching something qualifies it as doctrine... even if he was excommunicated and reinstated after Brigham Young tried to nail one of his wives.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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1876:
"All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and have earths and worlds like those who framed this and millions on millions of others
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 18:259, October 8, 1876
"Then will they become Gods...they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God”
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 17:143
"As our Father and God begat us, sons and daughters, so will we rise immortal, males and females, and beget children, and, in our turn, form and create worlds, and send forth our spirit children to inherit those worlds, the same as we were sent here, and thus will the works of God continue, and not only God himself, and His Son Jesus Christ have the power of endless lives, but all of His redeemed offspring."
Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 14:242
1894:
"...we shall sit upon thrones, governing and controlling our posterity from eternity to eternity, and increasing eternally"
Lorenzo Snow, Millennial Star 56:772, October 5, 1894
1956:
"...A man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48
2001:
"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done."
Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I'd say an official member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles (or governing body of the LDS church) teaching something qualifies it as doctrine...
No, the speculations of apostles don't have the sanction of doctrine.
Even precepts of the church president must have approbation of the church councils.
Yes, you can speculate, muse and theorize on your own time...but teaching, in church, the gospel according to Orson Pratt, Wes Christensen or GDavis is verboten.
Do you really want a planet, Wes? Does Matt really want the thread hijacked?
Ruling planets is the realm of conjecture and opinion, not doctrine.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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doctrine:
a : something that is taught
So you are redefining it... or at least using the "official" adjective to differentiate between the things THE CHURCH LEADERS tell their followers and the things that make them look like scientologists.
Only one planet I'd be happy on... and it ain't even a planet.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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What about Kolob?
The star Kolob is named in the Book of Abraham.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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And taken to the NEXT LEVEL by the morons.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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doctrine:
a : something that is taught
So you are redefining it... or at least using the "official" adjective to differentiate between the things THE CHURCH LEADERS tell their followers and the things that make them look like scientologists.
If the beliefs and speculations of all government officials automatically became law, we would inherit chaos.
If all meditations and speculations of church officials became official church doctrine, do you think a church would have homogeneity of tenets?
Yes, you can teach your own musings and theory at private get togethers. But doctine is taught in church. Try attending a Mormon chapel for six months, Wes. It's unlikely you'll hear any lessons or instructions about "ruling over planets".
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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If the beliefs and speculations of all government officials automatically became law
Doctrine does not equal law. This has nothing to do with beliefs and speculations of government officials... who, by the way, are elected by the governed and not chosen by divine inspiration.
doctrine:
a : something that is taught
law:
a: a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority
Just admit it, your church teaches some crazy ass sh#t and instructs followers to hide behind the shield of "official doctrine" when they get called out on it. It makes you and your clan of fellow funny underwear zombies look even more ridiculous when you pull this sh#t. At least scientologists have enough honor to defend their teachings.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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It's not a teaching...it qualifies as folklore.
And to you... a sensationalistic caricature of Mormon beliefs to
expound your one-sided view of the faith.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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it qualifies as folklore.
As does all religion, especially one that has changed as much as the moron religion has in its brief history.
That sh#t was taught by the LEADERS of your church for Christ's sake. Not once, not twice... not mumbled over a cup of coffee or a beer... it was TAUGHT at Brigham Young University... by LEADERS of YOUR CHURCH.
And sure, I'll stop bashing morons in general... as soon as they own up to their DOCTRINE (teachings)...
...and stop sending 19 year old kids with the title "elder" to brainwash people.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Ron, I don't chip boulders and I don't accuse you of the equally repulsive act of necrophilizing your dead animals.
Stop being a DICK.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Back to that stunningly bad attempt at Hip-Hop: was anyone else immediately reminded of the scene in Boogie Nights where Dirk Diggler, adrift in a haze of self-delusional hubris, actually beleives he can write songs and perform music?
My primary reaction is one of embarassment and mortification for that poor lost soul. Was that really Ivan Greene? Or a cruel troll? Holy mother of God, somebody who knows and cares for him should sit him down and deliver a serious reality check. Damn, son. CB4 without one whiff of that movie's delectable irony. It's gonna take a few hours of sonic cleansing -- maybe some Wipers, or Sleater-Kinney -- to disinfect my sense of hearing.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Religious zealots have been chipping holds in the Stone of Reality for a long time now, not just Mormons and Republicans... :P
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Just admit it, your church teaches some crazy ass sh#t and instructs followers to hide behind the shield of "official doctrine" when they get called out on it. It makes you and your clan of fellow funny underwear zombies look even more ridiculous when you pull this sh#t. At least scientologists have enough honor to defend their teachings.
Yes, the church agrees with you...that I'm honor challenged...
But in nearly three decades of attending LDS meetings, I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught as verity or authentic. But you, with all your "honor" know better...
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