Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Dec 19, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
|
121.5 is the voice emergency channel. Don't know if automated signals ever went out on that. Looking on wiki it seems they do as well.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Dec 19, 2012 - 10:57pm PT
|
most small planes only have a VHF radio so 121.5 was the best choice, satellites as search tools were not available in the 60s and 70s. When 406 became available they continued to also transmit on 121,5 so that small planes could participate in searches without the need for special equipment. They used to teach pilots to monitor 121.5 after a hard landing to make sure the ELT had not been activated.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
|
Any updates for us on this today Werner? Still hoping for the best.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 12:43pm PT
|
Helicopter has arrived and will be taking off within the next hour for today's search ......
|
|
spyork
Trad climber
Tunneling out of prison
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
|
I was an intern Junior Chemist at Chevron in '82. The pilot of that plane, Ron Vaughan sat down the hall from me. I remember when we all heard about the crash. Small world...
Steve
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
|
bump
|
|
Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
|
Local news here on the Central Coast said the pilot was a local and took off from an airport about 30 miles south of here. Only the pilot was on board. He was headed to Mamoth Lakes to meet up with his wife.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
|
I'm sure Werner will update us whenever he gets back from having a beer with whoever Bear #46's replacement is.
And being as he's active on this right now -
Werner, Happy Holidays to you and Merry. Thanks again for helping haul my ass down to the chopper, and if you ever want a beer while I am in the Valley it's on me.
|
|
Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
|
What type of plane? I imagine a single engine normally aspirated model.
Hoping for good news... but its really cold up there right now.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
|
Last report I saw said it was a Mooney M20, so yes on the normal aspiration.
|
|
soaring_bird
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
|
T'was a likely day for ice with the precip and temps. No de-ice boots on the M20 wings. Very sad.
|
|
splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:40pm PT
|
A good friend of mine worked at the Avis car rental at the Mammoth airport during the mid 70's to mid 80's. He told us about this guy and his family that wanted to fly back to Fresno after a ski vacation in Mammoth and a big storm was approaching and everyone warned him not to do it. He decided to go anyway, but his wife refused to go and wouldn't let him take the kids with him.
He was really pissed off at her and went anyway. My friend and everyone else at the airport (including his wife and kids) listened to him as he described how ice was building up on the wings and he was loosing altitude and finally went in. Chilling to here my friend tell the story!
I hope that this is not the case, or he managed to survive an emergency landing and will be found alive or went onto some other destination, or whatever.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:45pm PT
|
The M20 was made with a turbo charged engine in its long history, also came with a Porsche engine, however most likely it was non-turbo, very tricky flying over the mountains without turbo, little power to spare and climbing very slowly in the thin air, hit a down draft and you can be in trouble very quickly. It is sad hearing these stories during the holidays, usually the same scenario, pushing things to get home. Like a prior poster said, deja vous.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:46pm PT
|
Today's aerial search found absolutely nothing.
A white plane in the vast sierra snow scape is pretty much invisible unless you come right on top of it.
Maybe we should send "The Warbler" out there.
He's pretty good at finding "the plane" out there ..... :-)
|
|
Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:48pm PT
|
From my experience The Sierra Nevada and Normally Aspirated Single Engine Planes just don't mix. Throw some icing conditions in there and you've got a fatal mistake. Its amazing how many pilots go down when they think they can make it over the mountains in bad conditions whe nthey can barely make over in good conditions. You've need to expect the variables. But hopefully things turn out OK. Maybe he heard there was better skiing somewhere else.
I'm nervous as my family is about to get in Bonanaza and fly to Arizona. But at least the whole family will move on if we go down. Best not to leave any survivors.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 10:57pm PT
|
Thanks for the update Werner. Like others here, my experience says this is now a recovery, and with all the snow it may not be until late spring before the site is visible.
I just hope that CAP will take another shot at it then. There were 8 unknown wrecks located during the Fossett search, and not a single one has been surveyed since then. I know funds are limited, but sometimes I wish that CAP would let those of us that do have the time and finances that could bring closure to friends and relatives, take a go at them.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 01:32am PT
|
hey there say, werner and all...
has no one reported a flyer, missing?
i was curiuos...was there no flight plan thing, so folks
could kind of know where they were heading and which
area to look in???
i know, with all the white, it still is the
'needle in the haystack' thing, :(
but i just wondered, about all that, just
to learn and understand all this better...
thanks...
EDIT:
oooops, i just reread and saw this:
North Dome area of the park
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 01:51am PT
|
I know you saw the area Neebs, but to educate:
Private aircraft are either flown under VFR (Visual Flight Rules) or IFR (Instrument Flight Rules.) If you are flying VFR, you aren't required to open a flight plan. You can't fly in IFR unless you are trained for it, and the aircraft is equipped with the proper equipment for it.
The difference between VFR and IFR has to do with weather factors, primarily the distance that the pilot can see in a given direction, just to make it simple.
While you aren't required to file a flight plan in VFR, it's generally a good idea. You can also request "flight following", in which they keep an eye on you on radar.
When flying in what is called "controlled airspace" which is the areas around major airports, you are required to put a 4-digit code in a radio called a transponder. This code identifies you to the air traffic controller. When you are out of controlled airspace, you have a basic code of 1200. Generally speaking, when you are flying in most areas, you will show up on the radar scope of some major installation. This is especially true in Nevada, due to the large amount of military airspace and Area 51. If you are more then 50 feet off the ground in southern Nevada, chances are they are seeing you.
Radar tracks are recorded, so even if you drop off the radar, they can look at the last know data of your plane and find where you dropped off the scope.
The problem is, especially when you are in the mountains, things like ridges and hills can cause you to drop off the radar before you actually hit the ground. While in a lot of cases the impact site is usually fairly close to the area they lost sight of you, there are a lot of variables like glide ratio and stuff that can affect where the plane actually is.
Having been on a lot of crash sites over the years, I can tell you that a lot of small planes basically disintegrate on impact. That, along with something like a heavy snowstorm, can make planes very hard to spot, even when you are practically on top of them in the air.
While miracles do happen, the sad fact is that the Sierra range has killed a lot of pilots over the years in conditions like he faced. Passes like Tioga have a lot of metal scattered in them - there are at least 4 in that area that I know of.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2012 - 02:06am PT
|
If that's the CAP database report you are referring to, I have that as well. The problem is, I rarely find them less then 4 miles off of the reported position. Like that 210 that's on the hill down by Dayton, that one is way off. Only reason I found it is that I happened to look out the window when I was flying through the river valley one day and caught a metal flash.
If you have a more accurate database that has any military sites on it (that's usually what we chase after) I'd love to see it. I know there is a Connie somewhere near Tahoe that I would really like to see.
The one I am working on right now is finding the crash site of Dean Martin Jr. Even with all the military crash records and some photos, I still don't have a good enough location to actually launch on it.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!