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MisterE
Social climber
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Yes, there's noting like having Graniteclimber trying to rough up your balls after he massages his own.
So "Granite" do you still have to hide under your rock of "I'm all that and I have really climbed things beyond some 40' slab" in Josh to feel you matter ?
Please, spare me the withering keyboard comment from that digital comfort station you hold between your legs.
Who could stand the assault of that so strong brain of yours ?
Jim: Well played, Sir. LOL.
Hope you get your ropes back, Steve!
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jstan
climber
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From unexpected voices I am hearing it is perfectly OK to leave stuff on the rock for a long time. Is this really the consensus here?
Get away from the personal stuff for a moment, if you will. Is that what we feel?
Much as I hope Steve gets his stuff back, if the consensus is as it seems to be
we have a problem much bigger than some ropes.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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From unexpected voices I am hearing it is perfectly OK to leave stuff on the rock for a long time. Is this really the consensus here?
It depends who is leaving the stuff.
If it is someone the speakers of the unexpected voices have been brown-nosing, that is different then if it is someone else.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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A question of ethics.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/228996/Mt-Watkins-a-question-of-ethics
Who said this?
This whole thread is one of the more stunning I have encountered. Call me an arse, but if I find gear that is more than a few days old... it is coming down. I'll cut it AND pack it out. Littering a route is just that: littering. Advancing the sport? Bite me! Advancing the ego, more like. There was a time (and a few climbers) who believed that a single slip on the lead was reason enough not to attempt the route again. I never advocated that, but I do believe that climbing, like life, is about style.
Back on the SFHD thread I asked the question of what's next on this slippery slope? Is it okay to glue holds on the Shield so it can be done "free"? If someone is too fat for the Narrows can they enlarge the slot at will? Seriously, what IS acceptable? I know some of you are callin' me names right now and saying the old guys are all self-righteous but, Fuk with Ditch and you are not a climber. You are an as#@&%e.
We don't know who you are. We don't know what you want. If you are looking for fame, We can tell you, you won't get it. But what you will get is our very particular set of skills; skills we have acquired over a very long career of living in the dirt. Skills that make us a nightmare for people like you. If you clean up your act now, that'll be the end of it. We will not look for you, We will not pursue you. But if you don't, we will look for you, we will find you, and we will hurt you.
THE VALLEY IS NOT A SPORT GYM!
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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I had a fixed line to the Lost Arrow Spire stolen the day after i fixed it. Just proves some climbers are A holes. I am actually finding out a lot of climbers are A holes from reading the ST forum.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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My "karma" comment doesn't really apply. It would apply if Steve left new gear that clearly was not abandoned, and someone- someone who KNEW that it was not abandoned--stole it or vandalized it.
That did not happen.
Steve left really old worn out ropes up on the wall for a month. He says that they are old and so stiff and cable like that it is difficult to rap on them.
Why would ANY reasonable person NOT think they were abandoned garbage?
That is my one question for the Steve-sucker-uppers.
If any of them are able to give me an answer that makes sense, I will take back everything I said and issue a full apology.
Edit: I will even apologize for using the phrase "Steve-sucker-uppers"
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Maybe someone needed them to climb the decompressor route...
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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I've more or less always been against permanent fixed ropes on el cap and in favor of fixing where someone is trying to get something done. I'd say be careful about whining about the 24 hour rule. Here's a guy that came back to take down his rig and is getting flamed?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Here's a guy that came back to take down his rig and is getting flamed?
No one is flaming him for coming back to remove his trash. Coming back after a month is late, but better late then never.
It's just a little ridiculous for him to be calling someone a "thief" for removing the trash for him.
Edit:
Why is an old, fuzzy jumaring rope and a few biners so alluring?
I have removed ropes like this, and each time I saw it as a public service and placed the ropes and slings in the first trash can I came across. The biners are usually trash biners that you wouldn't want to add to your rack. I don't toss those, but give them away to noobs who need something to set up top-ropes.
If the ropes are as bad as Steve described, someone probably threw them in the trash.
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John M
climber
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Turn yourself in for defecating in public, malicious destruction of property, and harrassment/vandalism, etc. and repay your victims in cash with interest for the damage you caused them, and then we can talk about who may have packed out your trash for you.
I was just laughing about this statement. It didn't sound like you were upset about leaving fixed gear. It sounded like you were looking for revenge for WOS. Which just sounded nuts to me.
If you are pissed about leaving fixed ropes, then say so, but dragging old sh#t into it that has been worked out is pathetic.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Who ever took the ropes are thieves
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jstan
climber
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I'll ask my question another way.
How long does stuff have to be left on the rock before it is considered to be abandoned?
This is an old legal question. It is a real question.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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graniteclimber, have you ever put up or repeated a big route? If so, plz provide citations.
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MisterE
Social climber
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I'll ask my question another way.
How long does stuff have to be left on the rock before it is considered to be abandoned?
This is an old legal question. It is a real question.
To obfuscate further, depends on who left it?
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jstan
climber
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If it depends upon "who left it" we have the most serious problem of all.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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I was just laughing about this statement. It didn't sound like you were upset about leaving fixed gear. It sounded like you were looking for revenge for WOS. Which just sounded nuts to me.
If you are pissed about leaving fixed ropes, then say so, but dragging old sh#t into it that has been worked out is pathetic.
I thought Steve's post was funny because he's calling someone a thief for removing his trash.
Why would I be upset about him leaving fixed gear. He did, but he came to clean it up. That's good.
What's funny is him calling someone a thief for cleaning up after him.
What's more funny is that he is calling someone a thief for taking out his trash when he himself sh#t on someone else's new gear, knowing that it was not abandoned, for the sole purpose of harrassing them and causing emotional distress.
He apologized, but only after 30 years, and only because he was being publicly "outed."
A late, forced apology is better then nothing, but not much better.
Instead of offering a $100 reward for the information so that he can have his Good Samaritan "arrested and prosecuted" he should be looking for the guy so that he can offer him a $100 cash reward for hauling out his trash for him.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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It appears to me that climbing permits are just around the corner, climber self conduct or policing is just not possible anymore. Too mainstream.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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If it depends upon "who left it" we have the most serious problem of all.
Exactly. Steve and his crowd are the same crowd that sh#t all over the Wings of Steel team, both figuratively and literally.
If you come in from outside the Valley and left stiff old ropes on a route for a month or more they would strip them without even thinking about it.
But if it's one of their crowd, that is different.
Even after over 30 years after Wings of Steel, they have learned nothing.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
SLO, Ca
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Truth is it does matter "who" left gear and how it's left. Welcome to humanity.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:06am PT
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I guess it could have been a cleaning up project, if they had just jugged one more line and cleaned them all, that actually would have been better. Now there's this fixed rope hundreds of feet off the deck, that i have no way to clean up till spring...when i will clean it up. for the record, i don't believe in leaving fixed lines on any routes for long, but i don't consider a month a long time...especially since i spent a day fixing the lines straight down from the 5th pitch so they would not be on the start of the popular dawn wall start, or any other route for that matter, except the desparate, and possibly unrepeated(except by dave caunt himself) rock neurotic.
of course, i have been guilty of fixing lines on routes before, and longer than a month on el nino and lurking fear, and to those that had to climb by my lines, i am truly sorry. it seems that in this day, if one can play the free climbing card, such as a season on freerider or the dawn wall project, then that is accecptable as long as the lines come down at the end of the season, and everything is done to keep the lines off of the actual climbing. certainly, nobody was lining up to do the real nose, and even if there had been, my lines were off the route, i took care of that.
everybody here knows i'm not perfect, i'm not saying i am. it still does not give somebody the right to essentially rob me. ss
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