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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2006 - 12:12am PT
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Gee wiz Minerals
What is REAL aid climbing?
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lost
climber
truckee
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May 24, 2006 - 12:16am PT
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So what is so visionary about a bolt ladder? Sounds more like an abomination than anything else and might as well keep it legit. I do not clip bolts or rivets with the hopes that they fail and I hardly doubt the original hacker intended it to be scary for themselves, of course there are the "tommy tuff guy" types that disagree.
Minerals, great pic of the terrace, you know I would charge somewhere around $800-$1500 for that much earthwork.
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lost
climber
truckee
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May 24, 2006 - 12:34am PT
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Minerals, last 87 times I have been climbing in the Valley there is no community just the cool people and everyone else. I just thank dog that I am married so I dont have to attempt to be cool anymore. There is no open dialouge in the climbing community, only conjecture and attitude. Lets get down to the whole what did you do today b.s. that was going around in the early 00's. Who f*#king cares cept the cool people. Other evidence is that climbers as lobbying group to landmangers is about as weak as it gets.
There are no standars and our attempts at being a counter culture do nothing but to harm us.
I dont think what I wrote makes sense, but enough libations makes everything reasonable.
So I still want to know why put in semi-permanent hardware knowing that it will be bomber for you, but no one else? Seems pointless and somewhat selfish. One would tend to think that in a real world application that this theory does not work. It comes down to liabilty, should one sue an fa'ist for faulty hardware this does seem to be the future. I do not condone or support anyones actions along any of the bolting wars, it all seems silly.
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Loom
climber
167 stinking feet above sea level : (
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May 24, 2006 - 01:04am PT
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Nanooking is not just about bolts. When Erik built a retaining wall and leveled the base of Kaos that was public service nanookery too. If you ever need to bivy a small army at the base of the Captain you can use the nanook-nooky-nookŪ now.
If Erik were properly funded, I'm sure he would be more than willing to nanook many other nanookable areas of our lives as well . . . and make 'em last.
WWNND?
For hikers he (and ASHA) could nanookize the cables on Half Dome. If we chipped in and bought Erik some mules, 2" drills, explosives, pickaxes, cable, winches, cyclone fencing and a three month supply of food and weed, I'm sure he'd love to create a switch-back staircase with cyclone fencing safety walls in place of those manky cables, and you better believe it would be built to last.
In a gesture of good will towards Minerals, Erik will soon sneak into the homes of black powder muzzle loaders and western single action afficionados to nanook their weapons with replacement full auto rifles--of course the nanookualizers will all have safeties, trigger locks, magazine-out trigger blocks, etc. Those fools that are so concerned with what others used to shoot just need to get over their anachronistic fetishes and realize how unsafe, unreliable, and inefficient their weapons are. Get a life.
Drive a vintage car? Not no more. No Bluebook, it just got took by your bro NAN-OOK! Now you have a Hummer, it may last, but what a bummer, you'll have fun getting gassed.
Recently there was a couple who retraced John Muir's walk from Oakland to Yosemite that he took after he first arrived in San Francisco. They had to alter their route significantly because of freeways and unsympathetic landowners.
That route has changed. Parts of it have been hammered out. But perhaps the nanookers at CalTrans can retro the Muir route with an oleander lined concrete bike path.
The character of a route is influenced by many things. For some the experiential difference between an original man-made dowel ladder and the 3/8" bolts with hangers that Nanook replaces them with is significant--maybe it isn't important to you--but some people care about it; yes, yes there are more important things to worry about such as global warming, the latest ragmyt troll, and the return of Holden Caulfield's midlife crisis aka drkodos. But we should be able to reach a solution here. We can start by asking why "replaced to last" is so important? 1/4" buttonheads are easily replaceable, are a satisfying compromise to maintain the "feel" of the route, and are perfectly safe for ladders. It doesn't have to be all or nothing: you know--break Erik's fingers and chase him out of Yos or get down on your knees and thank him for every single bolt he places. Let's tell him "thank you" for replacing original anchor and protection bolts with bomber gear, but tell him to either leave the rivets and chicken rivets alone or replace rivets with 1/4"ers and chop the chicken rivets.
Scott
(edit) Good post Minerals. I started writing this earlier and finished after taking a break; didn't see your post until now.
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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May 24, 2006 - 01:57am PT
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Great Scott!! your ANALogies are over the top.
can you tell me how to replace a 1/4 incher that was botched when drilled, without making the hole bigger? A lot of the old 1/4 inch holes are wallowed out.
How do I pull out a machine head and reuse the hole?
How do I explain the 6 week climbing trip this summer to my girlfriend? Will I be able to reuse her hole when I get back?
Just for the record, I have done 6 walls with Erik, and I have NEVER seen him add a bolt. The last wall we did, we used 1/4 inch rivets, which we placed with a hand drill.
This will be my last post for awhile so I will not be able to reply until next week, I am off to Summersville WV. to do some deep water soloing.
Have fun with your lynch mob.
Rich
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2006 - 01:59am PT
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Hahahaha too funny
Hi Rich .....
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Gabe
climber
San Clemente, CA
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May 24, 2006 - 02:58am PT
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Ha! It makes me smile that you laugh Werner. It must seem like the never ending saga in your eyes. Years of the same. But is it too much to ask that future generations will have the same view up there?
I think we can preserve what we find valuable. At least, I hope. Cheers to all. Gabe
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Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
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May 24, 2006 - 06:01am PT
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Gabe nice post, I agree, "to retain the vision the FA had when repairing a climb"
Cheers to you my friend!
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