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klk
Trad climber
cali
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it took russ two minutes to post the correct answer.
he also spelled it correctly. "simo," NOT "simul."
if you actually say, "SI-mull rapping," you'll sound like a tool.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Simotanious
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Nate101
Trad climber
Aliso Viejo, CA
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My partner and I started simul rapping this past season and haven't looked back. We simul climbed, then simul rapped royal arches / crest jewel (no simul climbing on CJ).
We even simul rapped off El Cap last month when I broke my heal. It just seemed like our new normal setup, even in an emergency self rescue.
It doesn't seem dangerous at all if you and your partner are dialed. We're both using gri-gri2 devices.
Nate
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
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Heh, yeah, I did it all wrong...
just like I climb...
Hee hee
Cheers
LS
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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So, what jumps out from all the comments above is that a lot of people are saying:
a) simul-rapping is somewhat faster than sequential rapping, so might be useful in a situation where speed is critical
b) I wouldn't simul-rap in a critical situation because it's a new technique with massive opportunities to screw up and die.
Which amounts to something very similar to saying "complicated and unfamiliar rescue techniques might be valuable in critical situations, but I'd never use them in a critical situation because they're complicated and unfamiliar."
Where's Werner when we need him? He should be here saying "You are stupid American pussies. Practice simul-rapping now, and it won't be complicated and unfamiliar when you actually need it."
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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I've done it a handful of times. Here are some of the concerns: (1) Much higher anchor loads. (2) One partner going off the end of their rope can kill both. (3) One partner detaching from the rappel before the other is ready can kill the other. (4) Inadequate device friction on single (thin) strands can lead to nasty situations, including Item (2). (5) Propensity to interact with rappel mate can distract attention from essential tasks. (6) No ability to test the pull-down and have someone in place to adjust it. (7) No ability to add anchor back-up for first person down and then remove it when anchor has proved reliable.
Advantages. (1) It can be quite a bit faster, unless you run into problems because of Concern (6). (2) The rappellers can stay in communication, which can be very helpful in bad or uncertain conditions.
A few, but not all, of the disadvantages can at least be mitigated. I think it essential that both rappellers use some kind of friction back-up knot (or a device that locks when released), both have to know how their devices behave with single strands and be competent in adding friction to the system while in mid-rappel, and the ends of the ropes absolutely have to be knotted.
We have seen, through repeated sad experiences, that rappelling is dangerous even for very experienced climbers. Simul-rapping multiplies the kinds of things that can go wrong, and so multiplies the risk. The trade-off is essentially for speed and communication, either of which might make sense in some situations, but surely not in all or even in most. So for me it's a special-purpose technique to be used rarely, only when the increased speed and/or enhanced communication ability seem to definitively outweigh the extra risk. At which time, as Ghost says, you better have practiced it...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Actually, it's si·mul·ta·ne·ous, so I believe "simul-rap" is correct.
Not that it matters, but since you're attempting to emphasize the correct terminology, might as well get it correct.
Now, back to the thing that does matter:
It IS fun, lady S, leaping and bounding side by side down an untouched palete of stone, sharing the experience of touching things that have never felt a human hand...
A fine last experience before plummeting into the void
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Actually, it's si·mul·ta·ne·ous, so I believe "simul-rap" is correct.
you sound like a tool
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Isn't simul-rapping mandatory on some routes in the Needles of South Dakota?
And it's spelt simultaneous, not simotaneous. But if it was done by two simians, we could call it simi-rapping.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Refer to rgold point #3...
Its shocking to me someone would do that.
lotsa ways that can happen, most aren't volitional. least that's how i read it, since (potrero and maybe rr aside) most simo scenarios are either no-anchor-on-top or else alpine or semi-alpine scenarios.
And it's spelt simultaneous, not simotaneous.
lol
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
portland, Maine
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I have and would do it on a formation that requires it. Arches, towers.
Other wise I think it's something a gym rat came up with.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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I have done it on bomber anchors, with a longtime partner. Certain risks can be mitigated, knotted side is clove hitch/alpine butterflied to a locking biner, and gri gris or a leg loop prussic knot on the brake side. Knots of course unless on a rope eating finger crack like serenity crack.....
Heavy guy goes first on the opposite side of the biner, which is usually me, which means I control our fate. Make sure you don't unweight the rope before your partner clips in and it's all good..
Not a good practice for sketchy anchors or ones where you might want to move the knot to clear the edge or avoid rockfall..
We didn't do it in the valley.... Nor would I (except royal arches or something that would require it....) The anchors on p2 Sons of Yesterday were interesting.... So were the rap anchors on Central Pillar of Frenzy... But I think we were off route a bit....
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Byran
climber
Yosemite Valley, CA
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Refer to rgold point #3...
Its shocking to me someone would do that.
DMT
On my first ever simul rappel my partner (who was also new to simul rapping) did just that. Well, he didn't take his device off, but he completely let go of the rope to clip into the anchor once he reached the stance. We were still a pitch off the ground. Like an idiot, I didn't even start screaming at him to get his hands back on the rope. We were on 2 ropes and I think he was on the longer one, so my first thought was "oh, the rap must be sort of close so he's lowering me a bit to even out the ends". I'm not sure how close the end was to slipping through his ATC, and I don't remember if we had knots in the end. Luckily, we were a party of 3 and the third guy was up there at the anchor. He saw the rope sliding through the rings and just grabbed it with his hands to stop it. He rapped down to us and was like "WTF were you guys doing?!"
Just one of many incidents early on in my climbing career that I look back on and shudder. I've also seen another party do the same, although in a less serious situation (they were both pretty close to the ground). Now before I ever simul rap with someone for the first time I give them a big instructional speech about how when you simul rap you're not just rapping, you're also belaying the other person. And before anyone unweights the rope or detaches the rap device, they need to verbally confirm that it is ok to unweight the rope or go off rappel. Just like when you're belaying you wouldn't ever take your hands off the rope without your partner announcing that he is off belay.
Actually it's good practice to just shoot your partner a quick reminder before any simul rappel (no matter how many you've done together) "K, so we stay on the rope until we're both ready to get off it. Right?" "Right!"
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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If you're going down opposite sides of a pillar or needle or blob,
you can reduce communication issues by descending one at a time.
first climber can either be lowered or rappel on a sufficient length of rope,
using other climber as anchor.
On the ground, he will be the anchor while the second climber rappels.
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Kenygl
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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One person at a time rappel so there's someone to clean up the mess, call rescue, run in circles scream and shout, etc.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Crazy story, Bryan. What was your partner's ropeburn like?
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Rapping a snow bollard in the Palisades was the scariest thing I've ever done & only did it because we had no choice.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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In an emergency, if I thought it would help, I'd do it, as a matter of course, it's too dangerous.
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