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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
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he "Moron" crew from the Bounty. WTF was the Skipper of that piece of sh#t thinking setting out into such a storm???
Chief Petty Skirt is calling the dead Skipper a "moron" even though he knows next to nothing about what happened. No honor and no integrity.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 30, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
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Chief Petty Skirt is calling the dead Skipper a "moron" even though he knows next to nothing about what happened.
Come on, he has 18 years on frigates and carriers. Notice he never claimed to have sailed them, just been on them. I have served on a carrier, would never put it on my sailing resume, would get laughed at!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 30, 2012 - 03:51pm PT
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I do not understand why so many are susceptable to "blind patriotism".
Being stupid and not demanding good answers to serious questions is not Patriotic or Honorable. Being blind to the weaknesses of your nation and unwilling or unable to fix them is not Patriotism.
Our DUTY as civilians is to raise a strong voice when it comes to these things. Not blindly cheer as if we were at a football game.
But to think our soldiers are to blame for our failures in our duty as civilians is despicable.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
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Riley, glad I caught up with ya. I was goina ask what the heck we were goina do with these fellow Talk-o-vendors.
For two guys they sure are windy and refusing to answer the Chief is rather petty behavior on John's part. Don't answer if you don't want to, John. I was on the john for so long, looking at the Mark Hudon clip, and answering the phone. I haven't had the opp to go look at the rest of page two of this lively little tempest in a teapot, but will go back to see if the question of how much service, etc., John gave his country.
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John M
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
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There were many times I stood my "Watch" in conditions as bad if not worse. Didn't ask why nor did I ever contemplate whining about the conditions.
Chief, I fully appreciate this. I do believe that there are times when it is important to stand watch. Even important enough to risk your life. Guards have been shot for falling asleep on guard duty because that watch was crucial for the survival of the unit, or the success of the mission. I just don't believe that this particular mission is worth risking a soldiers life over. I understand that others feel differently, but to me guarding a tomb doesn't rate that high in the duties of a guard. The person standing guard over the patrol that is in enemy territory in my opinion deserves much more credit.
This has nothing to do with wether these soldiers are brave enough or not. I do appreciate peoples courage and I am not calling into question these soldiers bravery or willingness to do their duty. I call into question the need to put their lives at risk for this particular duty.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
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Nope, didn't think so. Lack of thread cred, John. Can't give your ideas my approval, you are not forthcoming, and that's that.
If I told them I was their meat for the term of my enlistment, I would do their bidding. I would likewise stand guard or go get help for a fallen climbing companion. There are bonds between soldiers and other men which are not broken with out a significant loss of self-esteem (call it honor, I guess).
It is not necessary to question why we must follow orders when we serve. It is what we agreed to do. The men who sailed in the Bounty were NOT, as I understand it, under orders bound by an oath. This is the significant thing to me. And it is to the Chief, as well, I presume.
What Lostinshanghai would say, I wonder.
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John M
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
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It is not necessary to question why we must follow orders when we serve.
Some orders should be denied. And have been honorably. It is a terrible thing to do and well it should be or many missions would fail. But to say that one must never question an order is foolish.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
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Yes, it's fun. Up to the pont Mike Borghoff spoke about, the Moment of Crisis. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1022299&msg=1022299#msg1022299
There is a loss of identity in the individual sense when we enlist to serve. We become part of a unit. As we are charged tolook after our brothers, so are they charged to reciprocate.
The same thing happens to a climbing team. You do what you can in an emergency, but you also do your utmost to ensure that such situations don't arise in the first place.
I won't say any more. You fellows are smart enough to see where I am going with this. I have respect for most of you. It would be a privilege to climb with most any of you, a trial for me to do so with those who think differently. In serving, you meet all kinds, as you do in Camp 4. But we all seem to have the same problems in life. And we all need to respect each other's opinions as just that, opinions. There is never a single truth.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
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If it were me in charge of guarding that tomb I'd ask for permission for proper clothing and an extra detail with proper cover to watch the watchers and call for cover if some errant debris came their way.
reports do indicate that there were many other duties to be performed during this storm such as piling sandbags, and whatever else was needed to protect the installation. SO long as the personnel could be spared I would want to take extraordinary measure to fulfill this mission.
Adapt and overcome seems right to me.
Regardless a great story of dedication to Honor.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
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John, If a soldier refused to obey an order that he go stand guard, he would be in the stockade so fast his head might spin off its shoulders.
WAFI!
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John M
climber
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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Mouse, what does it matter whether I served in the military or not? Do you think that I can't possibly know what honor is, or the need to follow orders? Should I have no opinion on when certain missions are silly? I have served my country in other ways. I have risked my life to save other peoples lives. How many lives have you directly saved? Have you ever voluntarily put yourself directly in harms way in order to save another person? I have. Multiple times.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
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The soldiers guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier have a green tent that they can use in bad weather. They're still on guard, just from inside the tent.
But it makes a better news story if they don't mention the tent.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:38pm PT
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Heh Chief - maybe he f*#ked up - I dunno.
But this was a once, so far, in history storm that there is no scientific model to predict it or explain yet. He got caught and died..It grew to be 1000 miles miles wide!
By the way this is what has been predicted for 20 years by GLOBAL WARMING AND CLIMATE CHANGE!
Go read a little bit before opening your pie hole...LOL
Opening his pie hole is what Chief Petty Skirt is good at. He never commanded a vessel, he was only a petty officer. Petty officers are non-commissioned, and usually aren't even allowed in regular officer clubs. The commissioned officers don't see them as being "real officers." A petty officer is equivalent to a sergeant in the army. Only on a Navy ship they don't have the independence that a sergeant gets out in the field.
I don't ridicule Chief Petty Skirt for his service, but I ridicule is willingness to sit in judgment and smear the dead captain of the Bounty before his body is even recovered. Chief Petty Skirt has no experience commanding or sailing a vessel, and no experience with large "Tall Ship" sailing vessels.
There may be people qualified to call the captain a moron, but Chief Petty Skirt is not one of them. The qualified people are not rushing to judgement.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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I would like to hear, from people who have put themselves in harm's way while in military service, what honor means to them.
Is it just bullshit propaganda to convince ignorant youth to give up their lives?
Does it really fill an emotional or spiritual hole for soldiers, the need to be appreciated, considered worthy, to be remembered? Is this need so deep that soldiers would give up their physical being in an attempt to fill these emotional and spiritual holes?
Is it all of the above, and more?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
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Chief Petty Skirt says:
Talking outta your ass!
Apparently you've never been there.
Those dudes have a concrete Guard House not more than 130 feet away.
LOL. The difference is that the tent can be used right at the Tomb.
Here it is:
Is Chief Petty Skirt LYING about his experience in visiting the Tomb?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
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"I believe that the chiefs run the Navy," he unabashedly told students at the Senior Enlisted Academy in Newport, R.I., on July 28. "You may think I run the Navy, but I assure you the Navy runs because of what you do."
They do, in the same way that the sergeants "run" the army, or that low-level supervisors "run" a company. It's an important role and their organizations would not be able to function without them.
But don't think you were ever in command or making any major decisions, because that was above your pay grade.
Undeniably, a commanding officer "still has more impact on a ship than anyone else," he said.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 30, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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I once stated that a "Tent" did NOT exist
Admit it, you didn't even know about it! You better go back and edit your first post so it won't be so obvious.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 05:20pm PT
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Every nation has it's sacred places.
One of the "Evsones" wouldn't leave his guard post, despite having a bomb explode near him which set his uniform on fire. He stood there in position before the grave until an officer ordered him to abandoned post.
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
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Thanks Chief,
Honor is an old thing. For example, here is something from an old grave.
Ω ΞΕΙΝ' ΑΓΓΕΛΛΕΙΝ ΛΑΚΕΔΑΙΜΟΝΙΟΙΣ ΟΤΙ ΤΗΔΕ ΚΕΙΜΕΘΑ ΤΟΙΣ ΚΕΙΝΩΝ ΡΗΜΑΣΙ ΠΕΙΘΟΜΕΝΟΙ
Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here, obedient to their laws, we lie
-Grave site from the Battle of Thermopylae.-
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