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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 29, 2012 - 11:22am PT
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Never stayed there, just went into the park and walked 30 min on the boy scout trail if I didn't have a camping spot : /
A hike is easier than impact on someone I've never met, but I can see the benefit of the convenience. Certainly extended and seasonal stays are going to be a pain in the ass if you are packing each night, but The Pit sounds skeeeetchy.
Ain't no meth in North Wonderland.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 29, 2012 - 11:42am PT
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The garbage bin is even clean
Well, that's kinda a big part of the problem, ain't it? You got a trash bin that you expect random people not to put trash in.
If ya'll aren't going to actually have the thing serviced, get it the hell out of there and you'll be a lot further toward creating an expectation of "pack it out".
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 29, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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Come to think of it, maybe we should kick some hippy ass...
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
The Coast
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Oct 29, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
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New Name? Calling it, "The Pit" may have inadvertently contributed
to the problem.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 29, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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Haha, just the dorks that are trashing it :) them ain't no real "hippies"...
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jstan
climber
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Oct 29, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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The dumpster reached the state it did because that model was no longer serviced by Burrtec. As soon as it was empty Robert persuaded them to truck it away. There is no longer a dumpster there.
If I may I would like to reframe this problem a little.
Coyote Hole is arguably one of the most important and educational destination points in the area. Furthermore, since it is almost in the village itself, potentially it could help support the local economy and even change how people look at themselves.
Last week I took 420 pounds of dumped rugs out of Coyote Hole
and then picked up fifty pounds of broken beer bottles from two immense glass fields. The fields were enough to take one's breath away. Now I'll admit anger comes easily but face it. Anger is not a constructive or useful response. Since glass begets more glass, picking it up is a useful response.
And consider. Suppose you had a sh#t job in a hot place with a boss who would like nothing better than to be rid of you. You don't have a pot to piss in. And to top it all off your only escape is to go for a walk in a dump filled with broken glass. You would do anything to have a Julius Caesar moment. To stand there before an army of adoring soldiers chanting, "We who are about to die, salute you!"
Then you look down at the now empty but still heavy beer bottle in your hand.
What are you going to do?
We have to face human problems as if they were human. And get on with what has to be done.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 29, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
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As soon as it was empty Robert persuaded them to truck it away. There is no longer a dumpster there.
Can we still kick some hippie ass though? There's a couple in town that need a good beatin'.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 29, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
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EL:
I surely understand what you are saying. But no. Doing that only makes the problem ten times worse.
Edit:
Fluoride was right: we DON'T deserve you.
Actually it was Anastasia who voiced that. I really appreciated her positive comment. The opposite has been rather the more frequent.
I heard Bridwell had 3 tons of abandoned sh#t in there
Not true. The three of us had to deal with the possibility we would affect possessions belonging to someone. Personal possessions in a open area really cause problems. We knew Jim had spent some effort there so we left alone everything we thought might be his till we had contacted him. Everything else looked exactly as though it had been abandoned(dumped). There were cans of food left near one of the two tables someone had built. Since tables are useful to everyone, we left them. We also left the cans of food. I sure would not advise anyone to eat that food after two years or so in the desert sun. Whoa Nelly! Eventually someone needs to dispose of those cans. Hopefully before they have exploded.
Here's a photo that gives you a feeling for this adventure. When it was taken the dumpster was still full to the brim.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Oct 29, 2012 - 03:20pm PT
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The one and only time I tried to stay at the pit (a few years ago), I was harassed and threatened by Dick Cilley. And I was told that I had to leave immediately, and that NO ONE was allowed to stay there. Except him of course.
The bummer was, I just needed a few hours of shut-eye. Not even gonna set up camp or anything.
As long as ass-hats like D.C. populate that bivy area, I'll sleep in other places.
JStan, thank you for all your noble work. Fluoride was right: we DON'T deserve you.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Oct 29, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
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Need a volunteer camp host.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
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Want the job? It comes with fringe benefits. A patch of dirt, and all the climbing you can stand.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 29, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
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@gonzo
The mental picture of some long-forgotten climber sitting on a throne of Hefty bags and Diapers, a Burger King Crown and golf club scepter in tow (a big 'ol driver, none the less) lording over his domain of glass and feces makes me kind of tear up inside.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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The image you portray is a thing of beauty...
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Oct 29, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
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Wow, guys... Wow. I'm speechless before such a sight.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
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Despite his youth, Gregg waxes nostalgic...
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D'Wolf
climber
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Oct 29, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
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I've been around since the start, before the "pit" was even dug. I was even asked to oversee the place. Great idea if you believe that climbers are a bunch of communal hippies from Oregon; bad idea if you believe they are a bunch of rebellious renegades who don't want rules placed on their lives.
Camp IV without the rangers to keep 'em in check... 'nough said. Good luck "policing" the area. The type you're concerned about don't care and you can do nothing about it. Those of us who do care won't stay there because of the jackasses that will.
I've never stayed in Camp IV and never will; I pay for a campsite to avoid the "trash" that inhabit the place (obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone). Same with the pit. Stayed there once or twice WAY back; pretty sketchy even then and has only gotten worse.
Get rid of the dumpster; people see it and expect it to be serviced. If they see it full they'll just leave their trash beside it (wouldn't you?). It's a health hazard.
Same with a portable toilet. If you get one, ya gotta service it; if you don't, people will leave their business wherever - another "no win" scenario and another health hazard.
The original vision, The Joshua Tree Climber's Ranch (to replace the Gordon Ranch and inspired by the Teton Climber's Ranch) never really happened.
Thom
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Oct 29, 2012 - 09:08pm PT
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The BIG problem is that it is too near L.A. I did not meet the same kind of creepy, drama filled insanity in Utah, Montana or Wyoming. I think the reason is that dang city. It does something to people's minds.
AFS
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Oct 29, 2012 - 09:36pm PT
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The BIG problem is that it is too near L.A. I did not meet the same kind of creepy, drama filled insanity in Utah, Montana or Wyoming.
Actually Ana, I was in the Courthouse in Joshua Tree the other day and the folks lining the walls made LA undesirables look like boy scouts.
Free camping in the high desert isn't what it was even 10 yrs ago. I never had the pleasure of staying at the pit but I think RF has gone above and beyond to make it a safe place to stay. Unfortunately, his efforts went unappreciated by too many folks for far too long. Maybe it is time to move on, literally.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 29, 2012 - 09:57pm PT
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The type you're concerned about don't care and you can do nothing about it. Those of us who do care won't stay there because of the jackasses that will.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 29, 2012 - 11:22pm PT
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Pretend this is an "audio rant" and it will be more fun.
{rant}
Here is the problem with the pit.... the premise of the Pit is beyond cool and all the work people have put in previous to this most recent foaming over is much appreciated by many. But, and here is the big one, lots of people gravitating to the pit these days are basically dirty in it for me lazy f*#kers. Yep, true story. The pit was never intended to be a last stop for the loser train or for the entitled generation to take shits, leave abandoned f*#king cars and act like idiots. But, this is what goes on there. Dirty trustafarians parking their Sportsmobiles up the hill, tossing out Whole Foods packaging and loudly plotting their dinner of seared ahi at the Crossroads well into the wee hours. And there are the young entitled bolt clippers leaving their vehicle abandoned for months on end until all the widows get broken out and every scrap of value is taken out of the carcass. They of course never came back to take care of the problem. It is also not a factory for would be artists nor a pulpit for delusional preachers bent on carpeting and furnishing the entire swath of dirt. Sure, the random tweaker may roll through and scare the lilly livered right out of their 2010 Jettas, but f*#k sake, you are young and fit climbers. Take some pride in your Pit and beat the piss out of the tweaking bastards and send a message. And the guy crying about Dick Cilley... Too damn bad. He was an exception to the above and actually tried to keep idiots from stuffing an already full dumpster with more overflowing trash, knowing each additional Santanas wrapper was just one mild zephyr away from the neighbors front yard. He at least had the sack to say something about what he perceived as trouble rolling in. If more people would do this a lot of the problems would go away. Have some f*#king pride in yourself and the Pit. If you see someone being a dick, go and tell them to wise up. If someone is being a problem, confront them. What are they going to do? Hit you? Have you never healed before? A shiner barely lasts a week. Sort the sh#t out before it becomes a big problem. Last years pit drama was such a f*#king joke. Girls hiding in vans while scary menaces roved the pit putting out bad vibes. God damn that sh#t is wacked! And reading about it on the internet is even weirder. Keep a lid on the drama, take care of your own sh#t, and if you are not up to the task, tell somebody there is a psycho in the Pit. There are people around that will sort it out for you. The Pit is a gift for climbers and should not be a carbuncle on the land owners ass. So, next time you are there, pick up some trash, pick up after yourself, keep your anus closed, keep out of sight, be quiet, and basically don't be a f*#king as#@&%e. {/rant}
EDIT: for those of you that may have missed it, here is the NSFW "audio rant format" from a previous thread referred to above:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1886785&msg=1908817#msg1908817
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