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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Sep 24, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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Guyzo blew his knee to pieces in the Gorge of Despair. We were up on a big back-country FA when it happened, and SAR was not an option. Getting off the wall was extremely serious but we made it.
After icing the hugely swollen extremity in snow for 24 hours, Guyzo strapped an ensolite pad around it and proceeded to hike the 12 miles out in a push, up about 4K over Harrington pass and down about 6.5K to the road. After he was done barfing we slept by the car.
The next morning he asked me what I wanted to do next? Perhaps go to the Needles for a few days? I thought he was in shock and had gone delusional, but he was serious. He was on hard earned vacation time and told me the knee would wait, I should pick up a partner and climb. All I would have to do was drive him in to the Ponderosa in the morning and pick him up later.
He got to know Red, the barkeep there back then, quite well.
Regarding the party on Tahquitz, I suspect they got off route fairly low down on the route? If they actually did the correct P2 (or second half of a long P1) of Angel's Fright, ending up at the long obvious corner it would be quite something to get off route.
Anyone know how far off the ground they were?
Glad it wasn't worse, & hope the guy makes a full recovery.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 24, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
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Locker's too nice. That analogy might be persuasive if we were talking about people crashing into each other. Here, we seem to have lots of folks getting into trouble without any interference from an outside party.
If you've made a habit of the reading the AAJ's Accidents in North America, etc., you know that people have been doing some really dumb stuff forever. (Anyone remember that guy bailing off the Nose who got his shirt stuck in his rap device and used his trusty knive to cut both his shirt and his rap line)? Between the gyms and number of people climbing nowadays, there just seems to be that much more bad decision making.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 24, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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"Self rescue is becoming a lost art."
esp. at Tahquitz/Suicide...
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Sep 24, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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I don't agree.
Yes, we should be as independent and as capable as possible. That should always be the norm before heading into the wilderness. A first aid kit, some training and a plan for the unthinkable... Yet the unthinkable never can be foreseen, you really never are fully prepared and that's the kicker.
I remember a story of how Bob Kamps crawled a few miles out after being injured. He and his friends self rescued but that must have sucked. I am also thinking of Mal who needed to be helicoptered out after a really horrific fall. That also much have been mind boggling. I am grateful for SAR. I won't depend on them but... I am sure as heck grateful for them. I am not as tough as Bob, I don't think I can manage crawling for miles and Mal... Yeah, I am so glad that man is alive. I really like him.
AFS
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
Far West LA & UK
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Sep 24, 2012 - 02:55pm PT
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Theres a story from Malham cove in Yorkshire UK i love. back in the day, two well known climbers got benighted on a route and had to abseil off. the first guy went off into the darkness then after a few minutes called up to his buddy to follow
His buddy duly followed and abbed off the end of the rope falling 20 feet and shattering his ankle. he looked over at his partner who had suffered the same fate, asking why he let him come down knowing the rope was too short his partner replied that there was no way you would have followed had you known. they then both crawled a couple of miles to a phone.
wish i knew who that was
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 24, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
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No Slurpee?
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Damn this looks high
Trad climber
Temecula, CA
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Sep 24, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
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It's easy to criticize someone else's rescue. We'd all like to think we'd not need it in similar circumstances.
The description seems pretty straight forward on this one--have your partner lower you then rap the route. If you leave $300 worth of gear, so be it. Better to be self-sufficient. But I wasn't there, so....
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 24, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
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^^^^
I think the issue that many are raising is that the facts seems to be just that. The party could have probably rapped off on a single line. They coudl have asked for someone to climb up to them and help them rap, etc. It appears (and I understand that this may not be the case) that they didn't do much of anything to aid in their own rescue.
BITD, a buddy of mine on the Nose had a block shift and crush his knee when they were above the King Swing. He rapped off--15 full length raps or close thereto, on one leg. That's an extreme example, but it shows the lengths that people will resort to to self rescue.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Sep 24, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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Heay.... Don't get me wrong. We don't know about what went down at Taquitz last weekend. I am knot passing any judgment on rescue wright or wrong
All I am saying is that there seems to be more Chopper rescues now.
Heck I cant recall ONE ever in the whole decade of the 70's......
and some really crazy stuff was going on then.
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rokclimbah
Big Wall climber
Socal
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Sep 24, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
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I was on the first pitch of angels fright when the incident occurred. To their credit, the injured party (3) were actually able to self rescue and lower themselves to the ground while SAR awaited at the base. We stayed put on the top of the first pitch and offered help as they lowered by us but they were doing fine on their own. SAR's challenge was getting him down the steep approach trail since one ankle was very swollen and not weight bearing, and the other was minimally weight bearing. Copter came by but aborted due to wind; looks like they ended up belaying him down the trail on a stretcher. But since he appeared to be hemodynamically stable and was in good spirits, they probably woulda been fine with the help of a few more climbers to help carry him down. Nonetheless, SAR was on the scene remarkably fast and in large numbers!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 24, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
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Yeah, let's tell our good friends who's lives were saved by SAR teams that they didn't deserve to live due to the unfortunate accident that chose them.
When it gets heavy, there is only so much a partner can do.
Particularly shamefull comments here.
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
Far West LA & UK
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Sep 24, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
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I think i am correct in saying he French are quite happy to invoice you for your rescue.
I think we have a duty as human beings to one another and i wouldnt sit by and not help if i could but i also think we need to able to get ourselves out of situations we get into (self reliance seems really old fashioned). Calling mountain rescue because you are tired = hefty charge and a round or four of beers for the volunteers, calling SAR when you have a spiral fracture of the femur = accident, valid call IMHO
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 24, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
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Monday morning quarterbacks are in full force.
First heli rescue in Yosemite was robbins bailing out Harding.
Everyone can use a hand.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Sep 24, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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mucci.... why the hate?
please explain shamefull
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p-owed
Trad climber
Ramona ca
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Sep 24, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
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Crazy Saturday was my first time to Tahquitz. I dint climb anything just wanted to get eyes on the stone. I am planing to return soon. It will be my first multi pitch climb. I hope the injured climber get back on the rocks asap.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 24, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
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Guyman-
Shamefull was directed at those who think there should be no SAR for Climbers, yet what about hikers who are experienced in self rescue, or mountain bikers etc...
NO hate here, just try and think back to when you were helpless to the massive trauma your partner incurred.
No amount of self rescue could have saved my friends life.
So, according to you guyman, and donini, and the other old dadz, he should have died.
That is shamefull, but from behind a screen the edge is not so sharp.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 24, 2012 - 05:40pm PT
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mucci, I don't think any of them were suggesting such a thing. Ease back, captain.
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John M
climber
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Sep 24, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
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This is what he said..
I don't think there should be a SAR .... for climbers at all. .
Sounds to me like Mucci got it right.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 24, 2012 - 06:24pm PT
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John, to clarify, I don't think that..
"...guyman, and donini, and the other old dadz..."
were suggesting that...
"...he should have died."
Capiche?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Sep 24, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
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Without SAR, a broken ankle could easily become a death sentence under the right circumstances. I fail to see how this is a "good thing." Why not just make people pay for it financially?
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