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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Ron...Wolves are like gangs...? I see where you are going with this analogy...Here comes the racial profiling again...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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A wolf lying in a pool of blood is very heart rending. Sad it came to to this... half of the transplanted wolf population in Idaho slain by hunting and trapping as well as illegal killing in the last year.
And perhaps more newspaper or magazine headlines heralding THE RETURN OF THE GRAY WOLF will impel more wolf tag sales!
...while they slyly omit the fact that 99% of the wolves in the world are Gray Wolves...and passing over the specific that there is no evidence of the transplanted Occidentalis subspecies having occupied the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, ever.
The metro-press will continue putting a gloss on the experiment and cloaking the local quandry in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming.
The wrong wolf in the right niche is what results with government money, mecenary biologists and as as Rox expressed it... eco-ninnies bearing down on bureaucrats and judges rule.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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More wolves...fewer ranchers. The demographics favor wolves, cattle ranching is a dying industry in most of the West just as sheep ranching is in Patagonia. Wolves are repopulating their ancestral home- who is the immigrant group in this case? Ranching has been around for less than 150 years, when did the first wolves appear on the scene?
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Cragar
Trad climber
MSLA - MT
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oh the lies these wolf 'hunters' tell. The lowest form of human soul, and those lacking empathy, understanding and survival can be found in trappers and hunters of wolves.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Yes, those vicious canadian wolves couldn't possibly wander into Idaho or viceversa. They don't have passports. Let's test the dna of ranchers and see how they match the first human inhabitants. The dna classification of wolves has gone from 24 down to just 5 now in north america because there was so much interbreeding.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Ranchers didn't eliminate the wolves from Yellowstone or Idaho. They were extirpated by federal marshalls in the early twentieth century with an active shooting and poisoning campaign. A small population of the native subspecies was said to exist in Idaho wilderness areas...and slowly making a comeback before the introduction of the Mackenzie Valley subspecies.
The Gray Wolf subspecies classifications were not based on DNA profiling..
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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the facts are wolves kill for fun, all day/night long
I thought it was girls that just wanted to have fun, but what do I know?
I wonder (been doing that alot), when these fun-loving wolves sleep?
Still wonder why I can see that there are 1,810,132 posts, but can't find out how many threads/topics there are.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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You can bet those federal agents where working in the interests of the ranchers and the fears of the locals.
The characteristics of any restored local population will eventually match it's environment. That's the way nature works. To complain that dna restoration isn't perfect is silly. The environment is not the same as it was either.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Shot on site? probably preferable to being lynched.
In between killings they howl.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Original wolf distribution. The "Mackenzie" wolf (c.i. occidentals) did extend into the U.S.
The environment is so different now, who can say what should be natural today. Let nature sort it out.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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I seriously doubt that hunting delisted wolves will have much of an impact on the population numbers. The f*#ks are SNEAKY and are seldom seen in the open. There could be a 25 wolf per hunter limit, and I'd be willing to bet that very few hunters would even see a wolf to shoot, much less manage to bag one. Most of the predator-designated wolves have been shot from helicopters in response to local complaints.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Most of the wolves that were eliminated in the first place were (a) poisoned, and (b) trapped, but very few(c) shot. Most of the damage is done at night, anyway.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I have seen seen five different maps of Gray Wolf subspecies distribution (and posted at least three on ST) They don't agree 100%...but all show the mass preponderance of upper U.S. Rocky Mountains arrayed in theCanis Lupus Nubilus zone.
The environment is so different now, who can say what should be natural today. Let nature sort it out.
Yes, nature will sort it out. Sorting it by reducing some elk populations in central ID by 85% since occidentalis was introduced...I mean "restored"...and sorting by completely decimating the moose population in Targhee Creek, near my cabin..
I'm afraid human nature is going to be be a major factor in the sorting,now. Not that I welcome hearing guns ...
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Dispatching wolves with a bow video game! What kind of people write this stuff?
You're on patrol around a village zeroing man eating wolves.
When your arrows are gone @ 1:50 its close quarters
with a knife...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3j94v7IXbU
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Overall elk population in Idaho is down from 125,000 to 103,000 since 1997 for lots of reasons, including wolves, bears, cougars. I'm sure some areas are hurt more than others. The elk will adapt.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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And the elk are adapting well in game management zones with high wolf counts.
In Zone 10 the number of cows has declined from 7,692 in 1989 to 824 in 2010, or 89 percent. In Zone 12 the number of cows has declined from 3,059 in 1986 to 534 in 2010, or 83 percent.
In Zone 10 the number of calves has declined from 2,298 in 1989 to 144 in 2010, or 94 percent. In Zone 12 the number of calves has declined from 856 in 1985 to 38 in 2010, or 96 percent
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Speaking of Elk populations, they truly need wolves in Estes park! That place is a disaster!
So, to rephrase the question I asked up thread, why are certain topics qaraunteed, hot button topics? You can troll more responses than you can deal with by mentioning, religion, republicans, Democrats, any current politician, guns, trad climbing, rap bolting, veganism etc, in a thread title. We are used to that.
But why do some topics, like wolves, that have almost nothing to do with 90% of the population make that list?
Wolves basicly affect almost no one. But everyone feels the need to have an opinion. Yeah they piss off people trying to raise sheep and cows in appropriate locations. Big deal! They do not do the damage to human populations that mtn lions, dogs, or anything with rabies does, yet they garner an inordinate emotional response. Why is that?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Relevant question...perhaps they represent the Nietzschean "ubermench" ideal, the united horde of the free and aggressive who follow their own instincts....
Enter any gathering of machismo driven men and ask which animal they identify with boldness, courage and primacy...and the answers, howls (or tattoos) will answer WOLVES.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jaybro...To answer your question..Maybe environmentalism is the line in the sand and having more wolves is a step in the right direction but on the other hand if they are impacting ranchers livestock and having an adverse effect on other wildlife...?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Enter any gathering of machismo driven men and ask which animal they identify with boldness, courage and primacy...and the answers, howls (or tattoos) will answer WOLVES.
Now that's an interesting statement right there.
Probably explains this:
But to give the devil his due. Enter any mixed macho guy-tough dyke gathering and ask for a showing of tatoos:
you don't have to vote, but you can if you have a photo-id
Interestingly, angels, wings, dragons, butterflys, faeries, lions and tigers are all more popular tatoos than wolves. (also gun/pistol and Harley Davidson M/C)
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