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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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It is very shameful to live in this country for almost 20 years, and not able to formulate simple question to be understood. I even can not get your problem of understanding me until rwedgee posted the witty photo of Stacked Cams. Here the answer- phonetically "hands stack" and " camelot stuck" is sound same for me ( not for you probably) so I wrote them with same spelling and spell checker was fine with this. And thanks carsic for rusglish interpretation
I got a lot of good advices which going to try.
1. The most important - I did not know that "The trigger does not retract the lobes as far as they can go" [rgold] , [bhilden]
" you girth hitch slings thru the holes in the lobes, and get mad torque without wrecking the trigger wires" [Pajamas]
"Bring two nut tools with good hook ends or better, two fifi hooks and with some keeper cord on each. Hook each tool into the top hole of a stuck lobe, clip the keeper cords together and pull down---this will give you more retraction than you can get with the trigger.[rgold]
start heaving straight back with the big muscles of your legs [le_bruce]
2. If this set up is not sufficient -- add water or cam lube [rgold], [Ben Emery], [jfs]
2.a Return in colder condition [Greg Barnes] - good advice, but not applicable in my case.
3. Next step is with this set up "hit it with a hammer from above, on top of the two stuck lobes" [Elcapinyoazz]
4. Then "running the hacksaw blade thru the lope rock contact" [Pajamas]
5. If nothing help I'll try last resort - taking with me "The New Oxford American Dictionary" [ec]
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
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BTW, ec- since you tired of bad spelling - when you wrote "unmoveable" did you mean "unmovable" ?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 15, 2012 - 04:30pm PT
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Alexey,
I presume by "stuck" that the lobes which do not move are very tight, with the tip of the lobe in contact with the side of the crack.
I like the idea of the hammer on top best - feasible for such a big cam (not feasible for small stuck cams).
Putting full body weight on the plastic trigger bar could just break it.
Ideally, you would want to pull/push down on the stuck cam lobes in a "neutral angle" way that does not pull/push them too far to either side. You want to pull/push them straight down without causing camming action. So the hammer on top sounds pretty good.
Also maybe possible to hammer from the side/behind.
The alternative to pushing with a hammer is to pull with a sling/hook in a lightening hole in the cam lobe. The trick is to find a "neutral position".
Either way, the objective is of course to move them into a slightly wider place in the crack.
Usually I don't have a hammer with me, and my method for freeing the stuck lobes is to insert my nut pick between the cam and the rock and twist it hard. Often this will rotate the lobe slightly and move it a little. But if the tip of the cam lobe is already stuck against the far side of the crack, this method does not work.
Once all 4 lobes are moving, then the next task is to find a path to move the unit to a wider place in the crack. This is often tough to judge, especially if the cam is small and the position is deep.
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ec
climber
ca
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Aug 15, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
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Alexey,
My bad...
Hey, I used to pre-tie my smaller cams with 2mm on the 2 bottom points of the triggers with just enough at the web hole on the shaft to clip into...like I said: The trick is to shock load the lobes into a narrower position and pull it out.
 ec
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
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I returned back an worked hard implementing your advices.
girth hitch slings thru the holes in the lobes, - it start moving with hammer help, but I scrued up with directions of moving and at some point camelot lobes get stopped on some constrictions and it completely stopped moving.
I tried to move it back - it not moving.
So it is still there , and since I give up I want give it to people suggested best advice. Sorry- I made cam position probably worse than it was originally
The place is not easy to get and it is not off the ground- you need to climb some
BTW - no one climb this route in a week , my bail binder was still there.
Best advises was given by rgold, bhilden, Pajamas, Elcapinyoazz and Clint.
Since bhilden, and Clint are local ( climb in Yosemite) - I am sending locations of cam to them
if rgold, Pajamas, Elcapinyoazz going to climb in the Valley and bhilden, and Clint not interested to go - I'll sent location to you too
thanks you for passing your knowledge
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 20, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
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Thanks for the offer Alexey. It has been a bit more than 40 years since I climbed in the Valley. With primarily summers for climbing, someplace higher, cooler, and less congested always won out. And inasmuch as it is a 6,000 mile round-trip for me, the opportunity to add a cam to my collection does not look particularly cost-effective.
Sorry none of our tricks worked for you. Every now and then you just have to kiss some gear goodbye.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
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When all else fails, get a bigger hammer. And maybe a chisel.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
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Thanks Alexey - should be a good challenge!
I liberated a stuck #3 Camalot last weekend - in training?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 20, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
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I'll be in the valley quite a bit in the next few months, but definitely won't have the time or desire to go after stuck cams.
Sometimes you lose one, just the cost of doing business.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Black Rock City
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Aug 20, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
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I am so bummed this didn't have a positive outcome for Alexey. I was crossing my fingers for a rescue.
But there're so many good ideas in this thread-- maybe the cam was lost for the benefit of many?
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
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thanks Daphne,
I have no regrets for this cam at all, having acquired new methods and Ideas.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 20, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
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Usually I don't have a hammer with me, and my method for freeing the stuck lobes is to insert my nut pick between the cam and the rock and twist it hard. Often this will rotate the lobe slightly and move it a little.
Works for me too. I keep prying on the lobes alternately with the nut tool and loosen them.
For some cams, especially small one, a rapid vibrating back and forth movement sometimes makes magic
Peace
Karl
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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I just think of lost cams as "cheaper than a ski lift ticket" and I appreciate that I'm not a skier paying that every time I want to go on an outing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 20, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
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These suggestions seemed to have covered everything I've heard of, so I didnt add anything. I was Hoping it would have 'come out' better. At this point I'd get more aggro with the hammer.
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generationfourth
Trad climber
Arizona
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Aug 20, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
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I just think of lost cams as "cheaper than a ski lift ticket" and I appreciate that I'm not a skier paying that every time I want to go on an outing.
Damn that's a great way to look at it. Especially since once I found climbing I pretty much gave up snowboarding with the exception of a powder day here and there.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
the secret topout on the Chockstone Chimney
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Aug 21, 2012 - 12:20am PT
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Alexey, I had to hit a big green camelot with a hammer for an hour before I could bash it out. Alternating blows on each lobe until it skated out. Good luck.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Aug 21, 2012 - 11:18am PT
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all great suggestions but with many I can't help but wonder what the cam will look like when you get it out. Will you EVEN want it still???
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 21, 2012 - 11:20am PT
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It's hard for me to imagine a large cam getting stuck like this. I have always been able to get cams out if I could get my fingers on the lobes, and at least one side moved.
That thing must be way over-cammed, or sumpthin!
Alexey, let me know where it is! If I get it out, I'll get it back to you somehow!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 21, 2012 - 11:42am PT
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This has happened more times than you think....
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