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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Jul 31, 2012 - 08:19am PT
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Dang never even thought to do simul rapping. Why the risk for such a short time gain. Maybe if you were in a lighting storm or something. Sounds very foolish to me.
RIP
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Les
Trad climber
Bahston
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Jul 31, 2012 - 10:35am PT
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Terrible tragedy. Simul-rapping is a legit technique for saving time, and a scenario like the fatal one that likely occurred here can be avoided with the use of stopper knots on the ends of the rope.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jul 31, 2012 - 11:39am PT
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one that likely occurred here can be avoided with the use of stopper knots on the ends
(EDIT: Then, again) How's a stopper knot going to stop you from hitting ledges 30', 50', 70' below you if you've got anything more than that in slack from a partner's lost strand?
All this talk on this site BY VERY MANY about how dangerous if not stupid rapping is esp if it's not necessary due to an available walkoff, etc. Well, insofar as standard rapping is dangerous, simul rapping is a magnitude (or two) more dangerous. My two cents. I love rapping but I wouldn't simul unless I was being chased by angry Indians or angry Taliban in a life and death situ. As said by someone else, what's the return on investment, not much.
.....
EDIT Sorry if this original post implied stoppers wouldn't have helped- esp in the circumstances of this tragedy, which certainly reads like someone, maybe because of distraction (e.g., watching a partner's rig and descent and rope instead of his own), rapped off an end.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 31, 2012 - 11:41am PT
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Peace.
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RasVegas
Trad climber
Goodyear
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Jul 31, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
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I have been a climber for 35 years and have had my share of near death experiences, as I'm sure many of you have. It comes with the territory. But I'm bummed that every dang week we're reading about another brother or sister moving to the great wall in the sky. Be careful out there peeps! Please!!
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CrazyEnigma
Sport climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Jul 31, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
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The two climbers on rappel were simul-rappeling. An extremely dangerous way to rappel.
Ranjit Sidhu and his female climbing partner finished climbing Sciatica (5.10d) 6 pitch and rappeling from route.
I met Ranjit once at Heart Creek. He was a very nice guy. My heart sinks to know that he is no longer alive. My prayers are with the family and friends of this double tragedy.
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Favs
Trad climber
Davis,ca
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Jul 31, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
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Stopper knots at both ends of the rap line can keep either party from rapping off the end of the rope. It sounds like that's what happened. If so it's very sad that two knots could have prevented this tragedy. I can't imagine rapping solo or tandem without tying a knot in the end of the rope unless the end of the rope is on the ground.
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CrazyEnigma
Sport climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Jul 31, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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This route does not have a walk-off. You have to rappel to complete the route. Lowering, Rappeling and Descending are far more dangerous than the climb itself.
You are tired, you make mistakes. Simul-rappeling only compounds the risks. It is also harder on equipment.
A stopper would definitely help, because you would NOT run off the end of the rope, but would NOT help if you were NOT BOTH first anchored at the rappel station before coming off rappel.
This book sums up this technique very well, and I just can't see how much faster or better this technique is. Isn't double checking going to slow you down anyways. The haste gain at the risk of checks is not worth the risk.
How to Rappel - Simul-rappel
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eagle
Trad climber
new paltz, ny
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Jul 31, 2012 - 05:44pm PT
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life is a bitch and then you die rock climbing
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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Jul 31, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
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Oh my, so sorry to hear this. My prayers to all connected to them. RIP.
Indeed, this has been a rough few weeks.
Eric
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jul 31, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
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Again, sincerest condolences again to family and the folks that knew the climbers. Such a bummmer reading all these reports lately. Check yourself and check your partners. Be safe out there folks.
Simul-rap? I've only ever done one once... when it was the only escape off some stupid no-name dummy-dome we got stuck on top of out in Wonderland of Rocks with no anchor and no down-climb. It was pretty nerve-wracking. Had to rap off opposite sides of the formation. Meh.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 31, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
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So sad. And the article mentions another fatality just a few days ago from not threading the rap device correctly. We truly seem to be in the midst of a epidemic of rap accidents, adding some urgency to the questions Stannard posed in his thread on rappelling.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 31, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
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In El Portero, it's common practice to simul-rap. When I was there with my buddy, we looked at each other and decided it wasn't worth the saved time, so we rapped every pitch normal style. I don't really understand it, once the first one is down and the ropes straight, the 2nd comes down pretty fast. I was dang happy to not have to deal with that extra bit of "trickery," and I don't think we lost more than a couple of minutes over 10 pitches rappin' old style.
Double stopper knots would increase the safety of simul-rappin', but you loose all the time you gain from the simul-rap, so most folks forgo the back-ups.
To the climbers, may the trip up be better than the trip down ...
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MoonGoon
climber
canadistan
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The name of the second climber in the accident was released today. It was Jane Vuong, 25 years old.
I've climbed with her before. Solid climber and really nice girl.
Be careful out there everyone.
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