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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Jul 12, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
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My wallet trembles with fear.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Jul 12, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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Certainly is a crowded field. And with Metolius Mastercams, Fixe CCH Aliens and Totem Basic Cams, not sure.....
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Jul 12, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
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When I got caught up in all this if you had Chouinard gear then you had the best. To the point that it was really a status symbol. (of a sort)
What with the move to Chinese manufacturing, and all the recent reports of customer service gone to h*ll, I'm done.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 12, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
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"i worked in manufacturing at BD when camalots were being "american made" at the factory in salt lake and i guarantee you not one of the workers on the camalot line was a climber or gave one single f*#k about climbing."
Did I say anything about the Black Diamond factory in Salt Lake City? Did you also work for Metolius?
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
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why can't BD put kevlar on the C4's? those wire cables always get fukked up
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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brawa
climber
SAN
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
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It also looks like they are using a dyneema sling too, I remember reading somewhere that they thought the cable pinched skinny slings too much and they would only use nylon slings on their cams.
The article you remember is probably from their QC Lab blog. The narrower slings caused failure at ~10 Kn and kinking of the cable at 3-4 Kn. Maybe that load rating is sufficient for these pieces.
Is it just because it's not opaque, or does the tubing around the thumb loop look beefier? Also, does the red sling look doubled up?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
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C4s are still the best out there like it or not! And I'm pretty sure the Chinese can put a cam together as well as we can
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
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I love BD cams, but not the c3s. I also am a big fan of aliens. Just got a brand new set for my birthday!! Gosh, they were pricey. WOnder what the BD price point is? The only problem I ever had with BD was a pole shattering when knocking snow off my crampons. They replaced it right away, though I clearly get a lot of mileage on my gear.
Every company has a day when they drop the ball.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
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How bout that 17% unemployment rate in Alpine County? Maybe things are better in a big city like SF where you can get a job making games to grow imaginary vegetables on your smart phone so you can make friends.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
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Tornado, I doubt anyone in Alpine county would benefit from cams being made in the U.S.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:04pm PT
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I'm more worried about the Chinese metals used to make the cams.
I mean, for f*cks sake, the Bay Bridge was made with Chinese Steel, and sh#t fell apart in 2009.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
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Aren't the parts machined in the U.S. and assembled in China?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
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I'm a sucker for the big corporate BD : / the Neo-Con that is dying in me still has a tight grasp over that part of my brain. I love the beautiful designs and the machine put behind it.
For whats its worth (or FWIW, which took me about 6 internet years to figure out that's what it meant), I've never had quality issues with any BD product. On the contrary, they (for me) typically outperform and outshine in SOME arenas. I'll still carry Master Cams for just about any climb, pretty much everyone makes a 'better' run-of-the-mill stopper, and the finishing on the Carabiners leaves a BIT to be desired (not a quality issue as much as an aesthetic thing).
I recently was handling some old gear and realized how well DMM products take abuse. I've kind of switched my workhorse lockers (belay, toprope, rap, rope-clove locker into the belay, etc...) to DMM and just prefer the buttery-ness of their action... but to be realistic its all just me being cute, I'm sure whatever route I'm gearing up to do has been done free solo in jeans and sandals, so they are all toys.
The BD stuff will be pretty cool, I think the C3's kind of flopped on the market, which is a shame because they are real particular and in some aspects (shit pinscars) are VERY good. It's kind of like, cams are arrows in a quiver. Sometimes a master cam might work a touch better than a C3, or an alien, or whichever.
I do understand the importance to support companies I want to keep around, and Fixe is certainly right up there, but I don't think the uber-hippies among us (hint - thats not me) have a totally mom-and-pop organic (lol) option. Like, not to talk sh#t, but if I wanted to be the coolest guy at whole foods it would be better to buy a handmade chalkbag than to brag about the origins of my cam company... I just don't see many out there besides Fixe and Wired Bliss.
I probably won't have a budget for the new BD sh#t, and I'd rather drop the cashola onto aliens if I needed them (I have no soft-metal cams), but its hard to justify the dollars ANY direction after the collection I've amassed.
Support BD, they are cool and always good to me. Sometimes just because someone is kind of big doesn't mean they are all bad, yeah they are a big more successful and they make parts overseas (assembled in US, I don't really know what all of that means for QA but again I've never had a problem, I know some have) but they employ a lot of climbers in our industry. I mean, I used to sell movie tickets to meth'd out teenagers, what I'm not gonna sell a cam because they aren't made from renewable bamboo fiber and hemp oil? hehehe.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
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"i worked in manufacturing at BD when camalots were being "american made" at the factory in salt lake and i guarantee you not one of the workers on the camalot line was a climber or gave one single f*#k about climbing."
go ask the seamstresses at Misty Mountain and the accountant at A16 what their favorite free solo's are.
Man, you guys hold some weird standards and principles.
in one breath we call for the death of BD because they bought their own factory in china and then we bitch about high prices.... lollllll white people are silly.
I used to sweet old dried paint chips off warehouse floors in Pamona in summer when I was 15 to make some cash, used to bus tables and work 16 hour days that I only could count as 8 being a projectionist building shitty movies in BFE. No ACLU to my rescue, just shitty jobs that we all get if we are lucky. A factory making BD gear? I could probably have done that for a few months and it would have been OK. LOL.
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jewedlaw
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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Guy you are missing the point here....
They have pretty beads on them!!!!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:14pm PT
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Yeah I like that they bejewled 'em lol. I wonder if they will have a USB port too?????
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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Wild country are not made in the us why isn't anyone bitching about that? I bought a set of helium friends and climbed two routes with them all I can say is thank you backountry.com for taking them back after I used them
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
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These are all great questions. I think if we can get to the root of your answer, it might reveal a bit too much about ourselves : / lets not look OK???
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