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The Call Of K2 Lou
climber
Squamish
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I'm taking Pete's side simply for the fact that I don't have to right-scroll to read his whole post. Tough luck zeker.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Someone who brags about being a guide probably isn't a Guide.
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jstan
climber
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Guides are no fun. All the fun is in getting lost and then telling the story.
At the start all the guide should do is tell the client they are the boss and to lead on. Then when the day is half shot merely ask whether they are looking forward to a nice bivy. If they say no you tell them to focus on getting their asses out of the sling in which it is presently located.
Sometimes, going all limey on people is the only sensible course of action.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Last I heard about rude comments was from ... I can't remember ... but must have started at Woodrow Wilson Guthrie and it does not bode well for the purveyor(s) of rude language.
There a deputy sheriff approached him
In a manner rather rude,
Vulgar words of anger,
An' his wife she overheard.
Pretty Boy grabbed a log chain,
And the deputy grabbed his gun;
In the fight that followed
He laid that deputy down.
FAT, you may want to read this one twice.
I don't know for sure if PRon is funny or rude. Could someone read through all his posts (and for completeness, the ones that he might be responding to) and get back to us with stats?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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"he took to the hills and timbers
and lived the life of shame
every crime in oklahoma
was added to his name."
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Well, Zeke, I'm not going to reproduce your insulting emails despite your repeated requests. What is the matter? Don't you remember what you said? Were you drinking? ;)
You haven't offered any counterpoint to my objections to the inception of the PCGI that I offered in seth's thread and provided a link to in the second post on this thread;
I worked on the curriculum for the AMGA for years. A decade earlier I guided a grade V FA.
So I felt a bit slighted at not being grandfathered, but I went through the process and jumped through the hoops and passed the exam and, guess what I'm a better guide and climber for it.
Then along come some others, perhaps one or two who also felt slighted but refused to go through the process.
So they go off and make a mutual backslapping club that act as spoilers that confuses land managers.
But I'm not permitted to quip about it?
You are coming off as a whiner.
Instead I found it curious last night when you started deleting your posts. I lost one, but caught the following one after grover's post;
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
very funny grover, that must be the toll free your mom gave you.
Hmmm.
You are complaining about my comments?
You should be glad that ontheedgeandscaredto death pulled his previous post;
Jun 30, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
Uh, piton ron didn't start his own butt hurt thread, you did.
Loved that one!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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ah, now i see what this is about--the usual AMGA banter aimed at upstart PCGI and zeke, true to form, choosing to miss the bathetic humor and choosing to take offense.
if you're not familiar with these organizations, i don't mind giving a little background.
once upon a time, i think about 6-7 years ago, zeke and his friend seth got sick and tired of the mickey mouse hoops they make you jump through during guide training and decided to run off and form a competing guide's organization of their own. both of these fellows are excellent climbers and excellent guides, and their little breakaway was followed by the sort of financial and organizational success which i'm sure rankles AMGA true believers like ron. ron jumped all those hoops back in his day and is damn proud of it, but when he gets in zeke's face he knows he's talking to the owner of one of the most successful guide businesses in the country, and he also hates seeing PCGI certification accepted by chief rangers and land managers from coast to coast.
so we get little below-the-belt cuts, like--hahaha--the PCGI oughta be having a fund raiser for cripples posing as disabled veterans. pretty funny, huh? crippled veterans, that's gotta be the classiest thing since janet jackson's wardrobe malfunction. if you get in piton ron's face, he starts treating you to photographs of his extensive gun collection. but you'll be able to count on one thing in this little male-male bitchslap: there won't be a single antisemitic slur.
my favorite AMGA put-down was proferred by a certain well-known guide who reportedly gave zeke a good, round flunking. he compares the "sierra pale ale" of PCGI to the lusty, voluptuous "st. pauli girl brew" of AMGA. don't begrudge this fellow his small comforts these days.
zeke, unfortunately, tends to be vindictive and, as a prominent competitor of his once told me, will threaten to sue you at the drop of a hat. he's beating the tom-tom and putting on war paint here:
Hey Ron, looks like its shaping up to be another exciting, late and according to you "drunken" night for me in my office! Retract your slander of me and apologize sir!
(you'll notice that certain tilt in zeke's laptop screen, just about enough to conceal a flask of jim beam or a bottle of perrier.)
i doubt that zeke will be suing me, however, because of my lifelong background in publishing and familiarity with slander and libel issues. i will be happy to talk to whatever lawyer he's able to afford, who, i'm sure, will also enlighten him as to the weakness of photographic evidence, prima facie. zeke has a nice family, by the way, and he struggles to keep it all together in his attractive house in suburban bishop on the, i'm sure, narrow profit margins of any guiding business.
i'm not going to say much more right now, about working for zeke, about the mickey mouse hoop-jumping by which the PCGI overcompensates for its daring breakaway, or about the whole dreary guide industry, which charges almost exactly 200 percent of what a beginning climber can afford for a safe, solid start in this sport.
however, i will invite you to take a quick look at this. don't worry, i copied the text and will repost it later after zeke deletes it from his website:
http://joshuatreeguides.com/testimonials.htm
notice, it was the first testimonial letter joshua tree guides received in two years.
by the way, the night zeke fired me, in the very same breath he asked me if we could remain friends. can you imagine?
and zeke, fyi, you can "delete" a thread you start on supertopo, but that only involves your original post. the rest of it sits on memory indefinitely, as do your text messages, firing me and then asking to remain friends. excellent prima facie--excellent.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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I'll take it from here,......
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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theres some stuff they sell, to make skin thicker..cant remember what its called though..
a good bath in benzoin solution should do the trick.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Well Tony, I had no notion of the success or failure of any of the organizations involved, as I decided years ago that guiding was uncomfortably similar to soloing with rope drag.
My beef with PCGI was their spoiler act.
No doubt their programs have some merit, but they originated as whiners and once the pee is in the punchbowl nobody's gonna like the taste.
There must be some truth to what you say Tony, even though NOBODY is going to see a photo of my entire gun collection (and live), because in Zeke's emails, yup you guessed it, there was talk of attorneys.
LOL
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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zeke raised a good point a year ago, ron, quoting that thing that peter croft had to say. personally, i think competition is healthy for any industry--the only thing that was "spoiled" was a monopoly--and perhaps the big myth called certification.
as i've mentioned on here before, i took a short AMGA workshop many years ago and decided that guiding was not the route for me at the time. i had a small family of my own to support then, and it would have involved taking a good month off from being breadwinner. PCGI's courses seem to cost considerably less than AMGA's and are generally more convenient and accessible, but in the case of a climber of long experience like myself, their instruction can't seem to relate well to anyone with a lot under his belt. i got the same guff from their training that zeke and seth got from you guys. to zeke's credit, he bent over backwards trying to follow up on it. at a certain point, we both just set the issue of certification aside because i became quite busy guiding for him at JT.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Well there is where we differ Tony.
It is easy to just call something a myth.
Competition is one thing, but do you buy pirated DVDs?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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ideas can't be copyrighted, ron. maybe you should talk to a lawyer too.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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pirated DVDs
Please explain.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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Thanks Tony and Ron for all of your kinds words.
I don't even know Ron (met Ron for 10 minutes in 2000 on my AMGA rock guide course in Red Rock (you came off as rude then, but that's just my opinion) I'm sure you are a fine enough gentlemen, when one gets to know you. And tony that is rude of you to say something about Jim Beam on my desk, you know that's a lie or slander, or as you might put it a "story", but hey have fun telling stories. And Finally, this is a internet forum, nobody cares what is said, its all unaccountable non-sense, so knock your selves out guys, have fun out and slander away. I will watch and laugh as that's what these forums are good for. Best of luck in all of your pursuits.
Cheers,
Zeke Federman
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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Fattrad,
I'm not going anywhere, i just said im gonna sit here and laugh.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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You should be glad that ontheedgeandscaredto death pulled his previous post;
Jun 30, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
Uh, piton ron didn't start his own butt hurt thread, you did.
Loved that one!
Reading comprehension, it's what's for dinner.
PCGI does not have parity with the international guiding organization. It is like a pirated DVD.
EDIT: OK, by way of explanation.
Zeke yet again posted and deleted after realizing that he hadn't bothered to read carefully.
What a four flusher!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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WOW. This thread is entertaining. Usually when I want to laugh I watch "Fried Chicken Anthem" on Youtube, but maybe I should read this thread instead. Well done.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Hi Zeke.
I would really like to get your comments on this thread on RC.com where Joseph Vulpis, a member of the PCGI board, tried to generate business from an accident thread, lied about his certification and made false accusations against the Carolina Climbers Coalition. You stated that the PCGI would be "dealing with him on a disaplianry level." What happened? Is he still associated with the PCGI?
I know next to nothing about the PCGI / AMGA debate. However, I believe that you can tell a lot about an organization by the individuals it places in leadership positions. Based on the posts made by Joseph Vulpis in that thread on RC.com, I came away with a VERY negative impression of the PCGI and its professionalism.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2581632;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Edit - for those who want to wade through the very long thread, Joseph Vulpis = NEGuiding. The debate on static rope vs webbing starts in another thread about a fatal accident at the Gunks. Joseph tried to delete a lot of his more damning statement, but you can find most everything he wrote in quotes captured by other posters.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
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Hi ncrockclimber,
Thanks for the post and I guess if you want to start that all over on another forum, great have fun! I gotta go to work guys. Check in later/ in a few months, as I only get on super topo every few months if something sparks my interest. I;m way to busy, wish I had more time to play around on these forums.
Cheers,
Zeke federman
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