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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 28, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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Big Business wins again.
Obama is a corporation's best friend.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 28, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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As a poor, self employed carpenter, I applaud the decision.
I've never relied on the government for a damn thing, I've paid my own way. I've been priced out of health insurance for years now and will welcome the day when I can get coverage for myself.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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As a poor, self employed carpenter
then it sounds like you personally will benefit greatly
because you likely show little net income from your self employment, to the extent that you would get a "voucher", a check if you will, to help you buy health insurance that you don't have enough of your own money to buy now
you will also be able to "shop" among many more insurers created by the law
congratulations, Brandon
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
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Yep.
Chief Justice John Roberts revealed the truth: The plan created by REPUBS, first put into place by ROMNEY, was simply a carefully hidden TAX.
THE REPUBLICANS COULDN'T PASS UP A CHANCE TO TAX THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!
tax tax tax! That's all the Repubs are about!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
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Brandon.
If you don't buy health insurance, you'll still be un-insured, and will only have access to whatever healthcare any other un-insured person has.
The difference now is, because you have an income, you'll be saddled with an additional tax.
You Win!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
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"Big Business wins again."
Yeah, that's the part that's the most unsettling about the ACA...it's not gamechanging, it still relies entirely on a corporate-capitalist approach to HR. This bill is a monumental gift to the insurance industry, an industry that is more interested in it's shareholders than providing quality care.
Why Repubs aren't behind this in any way baffles me- it's the Corporate Capitalism that you guys looooove....and it was your idea before it was Obama's.
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beef supreme
climber
the west
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
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A few thoughts:
this will only make healthcare more expensive in the long run,
it's a very good day for insurance companies,
this issue-for me- has nothing to do with the supposed "lazy" getting something for free while the "workers" pay for it- for me it's simply about being forced to pay for something I may or may not want. period.
call it a tax or whatever, but when the 'punishment' is paying a fine if you cant/ choose not to pay for/buy something... well it just doesn't add up. didn't we all learn something in history class along the lines of 'no taxation w/o representation'?
or am I just too far out? (which I'm totally fine with, i'd just like to know)
obviously our system is effed. i'm not saying it doesn't need changes- but why at the obvious benefit to for profit companies?
i agree that this is a step closer to what europe 'and the rest of the civilized world has' as someone put it above- you can't just isolate the one issue of healthcare, however- it's all tied together. would you really want to change economic positions with any country in europe right now?
hopefully this being approved by the supreme court, the way that it has, will open up a more active dialogue on how to really fix this issue- but, i'm of the opinion that government isn't about 'fixing issues' so much as putting bandaids on issues to keep itself in power.
but i'm really an optimist in real life! kinda...
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:14pm PT
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Anyone who's read the Commerce Clause and other, older Supreme Court cases that interpret it shouldn't be surprised.
The majority opinion reads that the Act violates the Commerce Clause, but can be upheld through Congress's power to tax.
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
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Alex Honnold's life in the van is over.
Nope, he qualifies for his mom's healthcare until he is 26. How old is he?
EDIT: He is 26. Thanks, Mono.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
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The majority opinion reads that the Act violates the Commerce Clause, but can be upheld through Congress's power to tax.
Correct.
Curt
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
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Alex is 26.
Born, August 17, 1985
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
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Ha, he's 27. I just assumed he was younger than I am.
Me and my big mouth. It's over for Honnold. Onto the next prodigy.
EDIT: Double win for me. He's 26. Thanks, Mono.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
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26 is the new 18.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
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reading comprehension problem?
I think I stated Brandon's situation and benefit well enough for most anyone to understand
As a poor, self employed carpenter
then it sounds like you personally will benefit greatly
because you likely show little net income from your self employment, to the extent that you would get a "voucher", a check if you will, to help you buy health insurance that you don't have enough of your own money to buy now
you will also be able to "shop" among many more insurers created by the law
congratulations, Brandon
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
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The central problem with the US healthcare system is cost due to fat in the system. And that fat is primarily buried in the disjointed private insurance system . But ACA does absolutely nothing to control the cost of health care. And does nothing to eliminate the dis-functional private insurance system. It simply mandates that we all participate in a dis-functional system.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
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All I know is that it costs me $1600/month ($19,200/year) for health insurance for a family of five and the premium goes up every 4-to-6 months (in 2000, the same insurance cost < $6000/yr). We are very fortunate that we can afford good health care (insurance). And we're also fortunate to not have any serious pre-existing conditions that would preclude any of us from getting health insurance.
I know, working in a start-up, that it's tough to get health insurance at a reasonable cost. We can't get into the 'IBM pool'. We have to go around the outside and find corner case insurance where the premiums are very high. Now it looks like we can pool with the big boys, get much better premiums, and hire more people. We cannot figure out what the downside is for our small firm.
I'm all for this bill, but don't think it goes far enough. Universal health care for all would spur entrepreneurship. Right now, the bankruptcy laws allow people and small organizations in the US to take chances, but health care costs and availability keep talented people in big firms where they have good coverage. What will really spur the economy would be the availability of basic universal health coverage. This reduces the risks involved with jumping from a big firm and into a start-up where the risks are high, but so are the payoffs in fiscal terms and for society at large (more jobs, more free flowing capital).
Universal health care does not preclude an individual or family from purchasing additional insurance riders. So for anyone who believes in 'death panels' I'm sure you could buy Death Panel Insurance to keep you off that list. I might ;)
Just my stupid opinion.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:30pm PT
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It was John Roberts that cast the deciding vote. That's damn important.
He's got balls, I'll give him that.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
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Fatty, how exactly will I be sucking down everyone else's tax dollars?
I pay taxes, through the roof as a 1099.
I'd just be happy to have health insurance that I can afford.
I paid 28 percent in taxes this year, but am priced out of health insurance.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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Well it will be interesting to see what we actually get out of this, let's say 10 to 20 years down the road.
Five years ago, at age 52, with an affordable high deductible insurance policy designed strictly for catastrophic events, I qualified for a very specialized and expensive high tech brain procedure which saved my quality of life and probably my life. There were no delays or lengthy approval processes, and never any question as to whether or not we could proceed.
I have been told BY DOCTORS in Britain that not only is this procedure not available there ("...I think if someone qualifies for that we send them to Sweden") but that there is no way someone in my age group would ever be made aware such a thing were an option.
That's a great way to control costs, don't inform the patients as to their options. I mean why do they need to know about what they can't get access to anyway...
My brother is a French citizen, lives in St Etienne. He's in his 40's, fell off a ladder working on his house a couple years ago and injured his shoulder. Despite much protesting and seeing more than one doctor, and having a wife working in the system, he could not even get an MRI. Now he's got a bad shoulder. Pain wakes him up at night. But he's not a pro athlete, and not worth the investment.
All of you here who are healthy and strong in your 30s and 40s who are all excited about the prospect of getting "health insurance" at Obamacare rates of under $800 per year could be in for a disappointment in the future when you are still very fit (in a society where the health care $ are going to treat obesity and diabetes) and at say age 60 need a rotator cuff repair or knee repair. Will you have access to a top notch sports medicine ortho?
For all of my adult life, sometimes when money was very tight and other times when it was rolling in, I kept a high deductible health policy which covered what I need covered. This kept my rates down. Those days are done. Now I’ll have to pay for all kinds of coverages I don’t want or need, and the government will decide for me what I want to put at risk in terms of a deductible. Or my alternative is to pay the “tax” and find out what care I am eligible for when the “need” arises.
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 28, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
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Whats next you let them tell you what you can eat what you can drive what you can wear what you can build where you can climb where you can walk where you can smoke what you can smoke......... oh thats right you already do all of that. Sad!
People's concepts of freedom are different.
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