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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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Lois, please calm down, for most of us it's just a game, we're not addicted and we can walk away.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 11:54pm PT
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I know your talking about a hole segment of society that that sucks the tit, and I totality have compassion for those fokes, but what are we gonna do?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 25, 2006 - 11:54pm PT
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jeepers lois, all true.
darwinian.
growing veggies far more rewarding.
hey wonder: be sure to email me with your colorado trip plans and lets hook up!
lisa and i are now going to watch "from here to there", about a guy driving a lawn mower from iowa to wisconsin. david lynch.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 11:59pm PT
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gotta get some dinner, ill be back.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:12am PT
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It's all about the action. Odds don't matter to "them" people. All they want is action. 13million to one ain't that long to someone who loves action.
A side note about poker at low limits: The rake, or the scooping off of players money by the house after every pot, is in some cases unbeatable, ie: eventually even if you win a majority of hands, you still go broke. You need new blood to continually wash into the kill zone or you and your fellow grinders will go broke, regardless of how good a player you are. Rake is the curse of low limit. Tangent: In "Rounders" it was said that, "in life, women are the rake...." hmmmmm...... not sure about that, but "Rounders" sure was a pretty good movie. More Tangent: Big gambling movie night should include: Rounders, Casino, the Hustler and Color of Money back to back, Cinncinnati Kid, first 30 minutes of Boiler Room, and that new one about Stu Unger.... forget the name.
Veering back on course: Casino games you can win at (with skill) are Video Poker (perfect play gives a few % +EV), regular Poker (high enough limits to beat the rake) and single or double deck Blackjack (with card counting). All the rest, I'm pretty sure, involve long odds and sucker bets. Like they say at Caesars Palace.... "we didn't build all them statues on the backs of winners..."
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:19am PT
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There are still a few (very few) casinos where an experienced blackjack counter can beat the house. You need all the lax rules, less decks (4 is about the best you'll get these days), and a dealer that runs deep into the shoe. What you really need is a team, with people playing min bets and counting at several tables and then calling in a "roamer" to a hot deck. If you vary your bets alot they will spot you and send you packing quick like. Best to wait for a hot count and call in someone who will play big until the count goes sour or end of the shoe.
On top of that, you have to know the "basic strategy", which is anything but basic (i.e. every single mathematically proper play based on your cards and dealers up card).
If you can play the basic stategy at the most generous decks/rules you are only at about a 1% disadvantage. With counting, you call in the "high roller" when the count is favorable and they can have a significant advantage anywhere from 2% -5%. There were some teams out of MIT in the early-mid 90s that slaughtered the scene for about 5 years. Cleaned up for millions and being frequent customers and high rollers got hundreds of thousands in room/food/etc comps. They eventually all got banned though.
Counting isn't as difficult as you might expect. Most counters use the +/- system where you assigning +1, 0, -1 to cards and keep a running count. I prefer hold 'em myself.
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:21am PT
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BS on the video poker Russ. Only a few specific models of machines have +EV with perfect strategy. Most are still running -EV.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:25am PT
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If them dudes ain't smart enough to check the payout schedule on the VPM's then they get what % they deserve.
Single and double deck BJ was available at Binions and some other seedy places last fall/winter. How about those constant shuffle machines????
added: pretty good book on the MIT guys: Bringing Down the House was the title.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:31am PT
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"the lottery is a tax on people who can't do math,' -bumpersticker
"Play the player, not the hand (sic)" that animal nickname guy
re: Grand Junction, Roy Tar, or anyone, ever done 'Medicine Man?' one of the best desert tower routes, cooler moves than Primrose.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:45am PT
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LEB, you sure know how to start something. I would still rather just roll the dice and take my chances. screw the rest of that hooie.
PS I luv thread drift.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:46am PT
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The rake is usually some amount (varies wildly) from any contested pot, then more rake as the pot gets bigger to a fixed amount. So it might be something like $2 for any contested pot, then $1 more if it gets to say a $10 pot, then another $1 at $20. Some casinos are now doing a "jackpot drop" or "bad beat jackpot" too... so add a buck for that per pot. Now add in dealer tokes....
Here is a good explaining of the whole event known as "beating the rake":
http://tinyurl.com/jkzru
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:51am PT
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Yikes, Too Much Info (TMI)
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:55am PT
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Yes Lois, at this point can I say DUH, its not personal. You quickly figured it out.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:57am PT
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Craps is also social and creates conversation.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 26, 2006 - 12:59am PT
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LEB, say wa?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 26, 2006 - 01:02am PT
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Orange ball=vinyl haulbag?
There is a route in CNM that many here have climbed. It's called Otto's Route. ~500' up a tower climbed around the time of WWI. Otto drilled big holes every three or so feet and filled them with pipes, making a virtual ladder up VERY unlikely terrain. It was an act of love. He spent however long, 'setting' this route in order to take the love of his life to the summit.
She followed him up there.
He proposed.
She said no!
My first time I soloed the route.
to avoid preconcieved assumptions?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 26, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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We paused the movie, time for bed. wonder, you'd like it, pretty zen. if you think back to lynch style, its been there.
not the lynch we recall from eraser head russ! I expected so.
the deal in rounders and the cigarretes, as i got it, was that he just worked with the currency of survival, sharpening his claws so to speak. moreover, as a means to keep up on the other guys, like winning at something as a smokescreen; that's where his opponents believed he was at, like maintaining his game face.
jay: medicine man. rings a bell only. colorado nat'l or moab area? better than primrose? I feel like someone just tossed the cigarretes they won off me!
'night all.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Apr 26, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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LEB, Im wit you, this was all GOOD, but in moving on to my skateboard threads, thanks, late.
Hey we're having our skate reunion in Vegas this year, you could join us, july 4.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Apr 26, 2006 - 01:19am PT
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oh, thanks for the colorado appreciation notion lois; we do enjoy it.
that orange ball? very weird! totally out of our context as climbers.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Apr 26, 2006 - 01:20am PT
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Hi Lois,
Was your UFO seen during the day or night.
Juan
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