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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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Apr 25, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
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I know a guy who took three consecutive 20-foot falls on a #2 (red) RP nut at Red Wall, Gogarth. Roland Pauligk is the man and produces a quality product for sure. Reach for the brass, save your ass!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
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I took several ten-to-fifteen foot falls on a No. 2 Stopper in the early 1970's, but the numbering changed since then. The No. 2 then didn't have as thin a cable as the No. 1, but not as thick as No. 3 and above. Also, they belaying method was the (standard for the day) ungloved hip belay.
I also had a friend who took a couple of longer falls on a No. 2 around the same time on Selaginella Wall and Try Again Ledge. That Stopper was rather wasted by the end of the day.
John
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 25, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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I guess a well placed micro is pretty bomber.
Assuming that they aren't bomber but you were just really lucky may be the better way to go.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
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^^^^haha
I definitely agree. The "pretty" was the qualifier giving me some wiggle room.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Apr 25, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
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No backing up the first twenty feet above the belay?
Overly confident that the one piece at ten feet will keep you off the deck? What happens if it rips out?
Too much slack in the line?
No tie-in by your belayer to a directional to keep him/her down so he/she can protect that first twenty feet so you don't hit the ground (or fall below an anchor and rip it out on a higher pitch)?
No helmet to protect your brains that literally have the consistency of cottage cheese inside your thin skull? Traumatic brain damage does not heal, ever. Better to break a bone or lose an arm. Even a face can be reconstructed, but not a brain, a critical care doctor told me once.
Belayer looking at something else?
All of the above while far from rescue personnel? Not that it matters if you are dead.
Common factors. I see it all the time in young climbers. But not on my rig. I like to breathe.
I don't mean to sound preachy. Just trying to help young people stay alive. Go ahead, be mad at me if you want, but you have to be alive to be mad.
Go see all the young males in your local major hospital's rehab department and you might understand my perspective.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 25, 2012 - 06:41pm PT
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I hope all of us who have inverted in a fall have taken time to examine why.
It is not always apparent.
In one case, I simply eschewed leg loops in one harness designed (poorly, I feel) to be used either way.
If you have this style, don't use it that way.
The other time I simply fell (the last pitch on the SalWall--'74, Doug Ross on belay) on a wet slab, the entire load of iron and biners draped around my shoulders.
I had no leg loops then , either, but the dynamics involved, a short slab ride, really, and the consequent tumbling effect, combined with the weight of gear on my upper torso, inverted me instantly.
No helmet, my head a foot or less above the ledge Ross stood on, the whole route below me, and I am here to tell you, I'm glad to hear we all lived to see today.
Every one comes to see the falls in Yosemite. Waterfalls, leader falls, and rockfalls.
What held me on the Captain was a tied-off short thick LA or one of the wedge LAs. It was in half-way. Brrr....
edit
As for falling from just above the belayer at the start of a pitch w/o pro:
I sat facing the wall on the pillar at the base of pitch two of Tweedle Dee, Randy Hamm going, "Easy stuff," for the first ten or so, then ignoring the chance to do the right thing.
But he's leading, I shut my mouth.
It is steep, and my feet were well-braced.
He fell (or there would be nothing to tell) into my lap, I SYN.
We did not bang heads, bleed, cry or tip side wise. It was the perfectest catch.
But not good leader etiquette. Don't need to show off. Respect the belay.
edit #2 for the hell of it is for 5.9
You speak the truth to the youth of America and the world but will they listen? If they wish to live as long as we.
Repeat after me: Climbing is dangerous. Climb at your own risk. If you ignore good advice, your stupidity is your reward.
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Grampa
Trad climber
OC in So Cal
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Apr 25, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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My worst inversion was going off Flower of High Rank. The rope went between my legs and behind, so I flipped forward and stopped upside down in my swami belt.
The first thing I remember was "Oh Sheet, I fell"
The second was "I just flipped head first"
Third was "I'm still alive" when I stopped bouncing on the rope.
I was wearing levi's and the crotch ripped apart like paper. Thankfully, nothing else down there ripped apart or was damaged.
No helmet, of course, back then. A number 6 hex saved me.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
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Yosemite 5.9, I totally agree with your comments. From my kayaking days I have learned a good beat down (not death mind you) once in a while is the surest fire way to keep you honest. One failure can teach you a lesson a thousand successes can not. Thankfully, I was lucky for learning that lesson without consequence.
A few take-aways. 1. Buddy up marginal gear (aid stoppers no matter how well placed are always marginal) with some equalizer preferably, I probably could have rigged this up. Being fiddly with one free hand was the reason for my complacency. Its never good to have only one piece to save your legs (then again the first piece is always your only piece). 2. If you can only get in micro or marginal gear, down climb and walk away. I felt somewhat climbed into a corner. I did not feel confident in the gear, but it was what was afforded to me. But if I fell on the down climb, I would be toproped by a micro lower to the ground...and that's better than falling on a micro. 3. Even if you think it is casual be more diligent than you think you need to be. 4. Wear a helmet even if you think its going to be an easy warm up day.
For the record, I do not consider myself a cavalier climber (that's probably what all dead ones would say). I fallen very few times in the last 5 years, I place gear with care, and I place it often. Sometimes, the route doesn't give you the options you want, even when it looks from below like it should.
I think not tying down the belayer was to my benefit. At multipitch belays, I always incorporate a upward pull piece for an entirely different reason.
Am I missing anything?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 25, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
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Probably, but you sound like you will live to tell about your next fall.
Gotta go. It's time for Jeopardy!
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Apr 25, 2012 - 10:09pm PT
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figure out the name of the route
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MisterE
Social climber
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Apr 25, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
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When I was trying to send "Japanese Gardens" (5.11d) at Index, I was taking repeated whippers on a #2 Loweball (with a long sling, of course).
Never did get that rig...
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
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ah haha, the embarrassment deepens!
Any MN folk(s), all one of you, care to venture a guess? Its on the MN side near the river, has a 2-3ft roof, felt like 5.9...but to deepen the embarrassment it wasn't...
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Apr 25, 2012 - 10:48pm PT
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maybe Piece of Pie, 5.8-ish
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
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ding ding ding...
<hanging my head in shame>
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jstan
climber
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
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The list of inverted falls gets longer and longer. Only luck keeps an inverted fall from being fatal - or worse. Much much worse.
I have been told I am wrong on this but consider. If you move your tie-in point down even two or three inches your chances of inverting increase. If your tie-in point is below your center of mass, inversion is nearly impossible to avoid unless the fall is both planned and well executed. If you are carrying a lot of gear it even begins to make sense to be clutzy and clip it all onto your seat harness. Get it low. Being really heavy in the legs does not help the climbing but it might help the falling.
We have a lot more people and better communications than we did forty years ago, but the fact is in the sixties I never heard of an inverted fall. We were also very careful to push the tie-in around to one side or the other on our swami so as to keep the rope away from the legs.
The comment about contact with the full face of a stopper is on target. Indeed if you know the alloy used in your stoppers you can look at the area of contact any placement has, and can estimate the force that will cause failure by shear. Simple metallurgy. If you want to get really serious, get a small hydraulic rig with a gauge on it and see how good your estimates are.
Sometimes it is good to get serious. Climbing is one of those times.
Darwin does not always remain sitting on the sidelines.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired in Appalachia
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Apr 26, 2012 - 10:32am PT
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...If you move your tie-in point down even two or three inches your chances of inverting increase...
True.
Climbing harnesses have a high tie-in for this reason.
In caving we use harnesses with a low tie-in to facilitate longer throws when using mechanical ascenders. Cavers generaly don't have to worry about lead falls; most of the rope work is either rapping or jugging.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Apr 26, 2012 - 08:37pm PT
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that's the initiation route -- all the local gym-climbing n00bs do this as their first lead
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 26, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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To follow up with what Jstan says, Metolius has extensive instructions for users to get their harness's (talking the Waldo version) sized up high enough to reduce this. I rarely read instructions, but in this case, I was glad that I did, and noted that the different positions make a drastic change in where the balance point is.
I think that the reason inverted falls were more uncommon then is that falls were much more uncommon back then. Due to less climbers, and those that climbed were what are called "trad" climbers now, and less interested in taking falls.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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The original #2 stoppers could be pretty solid and you could take some good falls on them. They were rated 1700lb (~7 kN) while the newer ones are rated 450lb (~ 2 kN). The original cable was really thick for the size of the nut and it could keep you from getting placements sometimes, but if you did they could be sweet. Of course, really dynamic belays can be like magic! As long as you don't hit anything on the way down.
As for flippin' over, don't get the rope between your legs. Oh, and wear a swami!
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Ol' Skool
Trad climber
Oakhurst, CA
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"Only luck keeps an inverted fall from being fatal - or worse. Much much worse."
How much worse than fatal do falls come?
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