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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2006 - 01:38pm PT
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ADK--
If you tell me to shut up, and I tell you to shut up, can I make out with your girlfriend on the playground after lunch? Oh, wait, you can't make out with mine (she has cooties)...
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 14, 2006 - 01:39pm PT
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The guy who eventualy replaced all those crap first ascent bolts (Half Dome Reg), spent a month up there or so and drilled everything by hand replacing the originals in the same hole.
Man, that must of been real hard work. I met him up there during a SAR and carried his other 100lb haul bag back to the valley down the slabs. Ugh!
I don't remember his name, but I tip my hat to him for his contibution and hard work.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 14, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
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Let me tell you if a bolt gun was around back then and legal, people would have made real bomber rivet ladders back then and now.
Unless of course, the person wants to be a psycho.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2006 - 01:50pm PT
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I think it is now time for Klaus to chime in...
And Werner, do you mean real bomber rivet ladders or bolt ladders?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 14, 2006 - 02:01pm PT
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Now billygoat
You need some serious help on priorities in life.
I personally don't give a schit if it's a telephone pole or a twig.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Apr 14, 2006 - 02:07pm PT
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"Let me tell you if a bolt gun was around back then and legal, people would have made real bomber rivet ladders back then and now.
Unless of course, the person wants to be a psycho."
Yeah, the whole idea of a sketchy rivet ladder is ridiculous IMO. Yes, you should contact the FA to replace a rivet with a bolt, but come on. It's an artificial placement, does it really matter that much? You've got to pick your battles and this is a dumb thing to get worried about to the point of making a stink about it the NPS and possibly causing much bigger problems.
If you want to throw out vague accusations etc, perhaps it should be done at rc.com, instead of doing it here and badmouthing the person who is providing this site as a free service to you.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 14, 2006 - 02:11pm PT
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Personally I don't give much of a crap either. If it's a drilled placement to overcome a blank section, it's not climbing, just getting to the climbing.
The reason for rivets over bolts is saving time and energy for the FA party. IF it became a boldness pissing game later, that's a shame.
But I also don't think many rivets (if any) were replaced with fatty bolts. When I was on pitch 2-4 of Virginia last year, it's true that it looked like crappy rivets were replaced with bigger rivets but heh, if they go to the trouble to replace this stuff, it should last.
Climb the climbing, clip the clipping, and quit inviting regulations
Peace
karl
Edit: I guess since I'm not the one taking the time and effort and money to do this work, I'm willing to give the guys doing the job some flexibility to do what they see fit. I know em and like em. I would feel differently about somebody just trying to chisel and drill their way into the guidebook
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 14, 2006 - 02:13pm PT
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Hey billygoat, since you seem to know so many facts about this issue, why do you hide behind minerals provoking statements where instead you should be out there making your own. I see that by using the cover of somebody else's statement, you can plead innocent. However, the fact is you are guilty of bring up the debate, here for the 3rd time. Not a very bright way to remain a welcome guest to this forum, IMHO.
So the point that you're trying to make (other than to just stir up chit) is the replacement of existing bolts and the addition of bolts to existing routes. I for one am happy to have safe bolts on many routes, but I DO NOT endorse adding bolts to existing lines.
Plain and simple, power drills are illeagal in wilderness areas--this is according to the Winderness Act, which I hope all climbers strongly ensorse and support. Personally, I think power drills (in the right hands) are a good thing--they often make better holes than hand drills. But the danger can be seen all over the place. In the wrong hands, people grid-bolt, add bolts to existing routes, and generally cause a big mess with land managers. For this reason, I support their ban in Wilderness Areas and where land managers have banned them.
In response to some of your statements:
2. I didn't start the name game. I'm just interested in it.
By repeatedly starting new threads on the subject, you start the game. Fess up to it.
3. I follow Gandhi's advice: "an unjust law MUST be broken".
So you are claiming that the Wilderness Act is an unjust "law." Ho boy...
5. I disagree. In Yosemite, climbing is a part of the parks image. They know that. Also, banning bolting won't stop bolting. See my answer to number three, and read the bill of rights. Namely, the first and second amendments. You have rights that exceed the power of law makers.
Watch out, they'll call you an enemy combatant, and you can see where your rights are as you flush your next BM.
6. It's not about the ASCA, it's about certain members abusing their privilege.
Get your issue(s) straight. What is it, the ASCA members or replacing old rivets?
:- k
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 02:31pm PT
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Wow! I have my own syndrome named after me - see above.
"PTPP Syndrome"
I don't know if this is a legit case of PTPP Syndrome, however. The allegations have to be specious, based virtually entirely on hearsay, and most importantly - there has to be one person using several fake user names to perpetuate the lies.
However there are some very PTPP-Syndrome-like tendencies in the post above.
I think such a worthy scientific discovery requires some celebration! Time for a beer, eh?
Note: Changeover time occurs earlier in the Eastern Time Zone, and daylight savings time gets you there an hour sooner!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 14, 2006 - 02:45pm PT
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Where did this supposed power drilling take place?
Tangerine Trip? for one...
Though i don't presume to know C-Macs involvement as Minerals does.
I emailed Chris once and asked him if the ASCA supported "Nanooks" bolting with free hardware and equipment, on routes like the Trip. I suggested that i didn't want my donation going toward power drilling in the wilderness boundrey.
He didn't want to talk much about it other then saying "it's best to keep it quiet, and the ASCA doesn't support Sloan's rebolting projects anymore."
That's all I know...Minerals post took me by suprise.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:13pm PT
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sorry to wander off topic here, but...
my understanding is/was that plenty of people have been creeped out in one way or another by pete over the years, and that while yes, there was some someone who went to some great lengths to agitate him/others via a host of identities, however the fact is that when someone says something in a bad way, that act does not in itself indicate that there is nothing to what is being said. that represents a sort of circular logic, and that individuals behavior does not in any way vindicate anyone for any other behavior of their own, they are separate issues.
perhaps there was never anything to all the accusations of kiddie porn (and general nonspecific internet creepiness) that were so prevalent for awhile around here (and before that on rc.com as i understand it, tho' i have never looked into all of that over there), but again, someone being less than straight about their identity doesn't mean there was never anything to their complaint.
i am not saying there ever was, but it does seem to me that anyone paying any attention can understand why people might believe such a thing, or at least wonder if it were true, considering how frequently a certain someone's posts are dotted w/ "hottie" or some other reference or inuendo that seems to be right out of left field.
i also remember a pretty specific statement being somewhat unrefuted, that being that pete dropped a line on a 15yr old girl, in front of others, that was something like, "i was wondering what it would be like to kiss you", and that that same line had been the one that he'd earlier dropped on a woman that he'd later married.
i don't why that sticks in my mind, it may or may not have been true, but i do recall that i never saw it denied explicitly, and i for one at least wanted to see pete say, when he was run out of that other forum, that he had been accused of these specific things and that each of them was simply entirely untrue. instead he was just posting all sorts of "meet me in the valley and learn to climb" stuff and just ignoring the other stuff, stuff which he was leaving his other community over, and i at least remember feeling like he ought to step up and set the record straight, rather than assume people were going to spend hours or days trying to become familiar w/ whatever was going on elsewhere in order to have a valid opinion.
i know if it had been me i would never have let anything like what was said about him go w/out a response.
in conclusion, as someone who just sees/saw it like a bad traffic accident in passing, i can say that fair or not, there are probably a few people who to this day see some of pete's posts and wonder just what this "syndrome" really is, and i have seen at least one post asking how he can feel comfortable making certain posts, in light of that sort of history or reputation.
maybe it's all undeserved, or maybe there is a shade of grey, i really could care less myself, but i would have defended myself differently, that's just me.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
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You dumbass, Matt. I did step out and set the record straight. I defended myself quite vigorously by answering most if not all of the questions to the stuff you write about above. And you're quite right, most of it was undeserved. But not all of it. I did deserve some of it. There was every shade of grey from pure black to pure white. I'm no angel, but neither am I the devil I was purported to be.
The net result was that the accuser, not me, was kicked off the McForum.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:21pm PT
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oh god...shut up you guys....those rc.com banning debates are so 2003.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:23pm PT
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I know, tiresome, eh? It's just annoying when someone writes, "why didn't he say anything" when in fact I wrote VOLUMES, and bored you guys to tears. Apologies for repeating myself, but in my defense, I wouldn't want to be accused of not defending defending myself, for there would be no defense against that.
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Kevin
Social climber
Oak-town
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:24pm PT
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Matt is a whiney bitch.
If you are a not a sociopathic addict ex-con pervert pedophile, you're not
much of a wall climber-
Everybody has to get in the club somehow-
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:24pm PT
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actually i was talking about years before that when it 1st went around and you were banned over there (or whatever). if you were gonna say it was BS, you should have done it then. coming back years later to defend yourself is just that. like i said, i am just watching it go by...
so anyway, about those bolts-
BG- yeah man, i never saw the other threads, would have been interested in whatever greg had to say, i mostly agree w/ karl (as usual), and i assume that if threads were nuked, there was some half-way decent reason for it.
edit-
whatever man, even after all of that you still often come across as if you are trolling for a date, i am not the only one who thinks you invite it upon yourself to a large degree.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:30pm PT
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"Everybody has to get in the club somehow-"
Well, for starters, you could try it the old-fashioned way, which is to actually get out and climb a big wall.
It's specious and potentially cowardly to take shots at someone based on what you have heard from others. Until such time as you guys climb the routes that ASCA has rebolted, it would probably be better to leave the discussion to the people who have, and to wait for Chris Mac's and Erik's replies.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:33pm PT
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people like me who never spend the night on a wall are still highly impacted by any conflict in management policy or any percieved breach in ethical standards by an organization that represents itself as working on behalf of the entire community and our interests.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:35pm PT
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Well, fair enough, dude. But repeating hearsay on an internet forum doesn't exactly aid the cause, y'know? Chris and Nanook will respond soon enough.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 14, 2006 - 03:45pm PT
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[edit]
above this post, pete has edited a post where he initially insisted that i delete any refrence to accusations about his inappropriate behavior. why would you delete that? whatever. my original comments stand.
[/edit]
i don't like to edit the record, but i will clarify that i was saying only that i thought your lack of interest in defending yourself when you 1st arrived on the scene @ ST was unnsetteling to me and others, and that i personally have/had no 1st hand knowledge of anything to do w/ any of that stuff, and yet like many, in the words of the beatles, i just "had to look".
i do not now intend to imply, nor have i ever intended to imply that i knew if anything was either true or untrue, because it's really not my life, nor is it my reputation. discostu et.al. was a long time after the initial tidal wave, back in the wild wild west days on STville, that was.
i wish you the best, but if i were you i would not be all smarmy when i post, and that is something i sometimes get from you, take it for whatever it's worth. today is the 1st day of the rest of your life.
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