RIP - Adventure Pass

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Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Feb 29, 2012 - 12:31pm PT

What SteelMnk said. A ridiculous amount went to enforcement, and from the get-go it was a money grab. They would find somewhere people used largely BECAUSE it was free, install a kisok sign and occasionally a trash can, call it "improvements" and start charging.

About damn time. Many thanks to the West Slope folks for fighting the good fight for many years.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2012 - 12:31pm PT

I wonder if we're gonna get charged now for them to take the signs down?

Urizen

Ice climber

Berkeley, CA

Feb 29, 2012 - 12:33pm PT

So far it appears that the federal court ruling only affects the USFS. That still leaves much to be done: fighting day-use fees charged by the BLM, and outrageous backcountry permit fees charged by the NPS in places where, by definition, users are not making use of amenities, facilities, or improvements--except for those spiffy office buildings where you have to pay the fees.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Feb 29, 2012 - 12:34pm PT

dosXX, i don't want to get on your case, but you are a naïf. the forest service took orders to enforce a bad law, and you can bet that the top supervisors were essential to the push, while people of conscience, like lokesh here, were resigning.

want to take a good look at the consequences of this? drive up to newcomb's and savor what the station fire left behind. that fire was even investigated by congress. chief ranger holding the line on expenses while people in the field were crying to send planes in before it got out of control. meanwhile, before and after this great holocaust to our forest, they had armies of forest service and related personnel--everyone from student interns to captains from the local fire departments--doing the only thing the forest service has known how to do for the past 10 years: put adventure pass tickets on windshields all weekend long.

do they need the money? if you think they need the money, go on up to the million-dollar interpretive center they built at blue ridge, several years after the AP program began. they had a perfectly good, perfectly serviceable, wonderfully interesting and well-docented interpretive center going at chilao. there was no need for this stupid development, except to PR the AP.

Karen

Trad climber

So Cal urban sprawl Hell

Feb 29, 2012 - 12:35pm PT

Now if they would only open Williamson!

Gary

climber

That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down

Feb 29, 2012 - 12:46pm PT

It was just a scheme to take money out of your pocket, and give it to un-productive Federal "workers".

No, it was used to subsidize the big timber companies. Rather than charge them the market rate for taking our timber, they tried to take the money from us.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Feb 29, 2012 - 12:57pm PT

I feel better now. The timber people actually produce something usefull.

Dos XX

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Feb 29, 2012 - 01:14pm PT

Oh, my. Feeling pretty lonely here ;-)

If I thought that the US Congress was as concerned about the welfare of the National Forests as I am, I'd be less concerned about the loss of funds from a locally collected and locally applied fee for actual visitors to the forests. But here are the stats.

Annual USFS congressional appropriations, following the 2010 mid-term elections (when 44 Tea Party-endorsed candidates were newly elected to the U.S. House and Senate):

2010: $6.1 billion
2011: $5.9 billion
2012: $5.6 billion
2013: $5.5 billion

That's a cumulative loss of $600 million in funding in just a few short years.

As a frequent forest visitor, I feel responsible for, rather than entitled to the benefits of recreation in the National Forests when Congress is shedding its responsibility.

EDIT:
Source of appropriation information
http://www.fs.fed.us/aboutus/budget/

Guck

Trad climber

Santa Barbara, CA

Feb 29, 2012 - 01:37pm PT

The adventure pass is not dead yet; According to the NFS site, it is still required in Los Padres National Forrest. However, I doubt the enforcement will be strict as the locals (Santa Barbara) have rarely purchased the thing in the past, mostly with impunity.

Gary

climber

That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down

Feb 29, 2012 - 01:41pm PT

I feel better now. The timber people actually produce something usefull.

Yeah, and while you cover their costs, they make the profit. Pretty good deal, isn't it? Gotta love capitalism at work.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 29, 2012 - 01:43pm PT

Gary, it is called 'state capitalism' as practiced in China and Venezuela, to name a couple.

Tfish

Trad climber

La Crescenta, CA

Feb 29, 2012 - 01:48pm PT

In the article it says the government went to far for charging for access. So when do I get my refund for the passes I bought?

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Feb 29, 2012 - 01:48pm PT

Dos xx said:

"...I get where you're coming from, but the USFS is not the Evil Empire. I've found the vast majority of USFS personnel, from upper level managers to rangers, to be dedicated to preserving some of the best places on the planet, and willing to do so while getting paid sh*t. "

and

"As a frequent forest visitor, I feel responsible for, rather than entitled to the benefits of recreation in the National Forests when Congress is shedding its responsibility."

This fee was total bullshit and as Coz said, screwed over the poor. As far as that goes, if you don't think 5.5 million is enough to spend (I believe it's a lot more, nothing, I MEAN NOTHING is stopping you from sending the extra money in, I can get a link so you can do so since you are so damned supportive.

Or is it just meaningless lip flapping on your part?

Wait, was that $5,500,000? No - my mistake, I misread that, apparently $5,500,000,000.00 isn't enough. So send your money right on in there if YOU think it's the best use of your money. I don't, f*#k em.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Feb 29, 2012 - 02:00pm PT

putting dosXX figures into perspective, in talking about federal priorities, that's $ 0.0006 trillion.

please don't feel alone, dos--we're not ganging up on you. just talk about the whole picture.

neversummer

Trad climber

30 mins. from suicide USA

Feb 29, 2012 - 02:06pm PT

You aint gonna charge me to go to my church no more...nananananana

Fritz

Trad climber

Choss Creek, ID

Feb 29, 2012 - 02:27pm PT

I do want to note the USFS is part of the Dept of Agriculture, and the Park Service & BLM are in Dept of Interior.

I always was slightly curious about how that came to be.

While reading a John Muir Bio this winter (John Muir Apostle of Nature), I finally got the explanation.

It was the result of a long-term struggle between Muir (conservation) & Gifford Pinchot (wise-use of forest resources).

Pinchot won the long struggle: when Congress gradually moved administration of the Forest Reserves,established in 1891, from Dept of Interior to Dept of Agriculture. Congress then established the Forest Service, with Pinchot in command, in 1905.

Pinchot also adopted the word Conservation for his "wise-use" policies and left Muir with being a------"Preservationist."

The National Park Service was finally established in 1925.

By contrast the BLM (Bureau of Livestock & Mining) is a recent creation.

The Bureau of Land Management was formed during a government reorganization in 1946, combining two former federal agencies -- the General Land Office and the U.S. Grazing Service.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Feb 29, 2012 - 02:35pm PT

It was just a scheme to take money out of your pocket, and give it to un-productive Federal "workers".

No, it was used to subsidize the big timber companies. Rather than charge them the market rate for taking our timber, they tried to take the money from us.

Yer both wrong.

The whole program was driven by a congrescritter from the midwest with NO USFS land in hs district, BUT he did have the contractor that collected the fines and did the paperwork as a constituent.