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oldgear
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2012 - 05:01pm PT
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POP TENT HISTORY: And my last response to recent posts concerns Croster in Japan. When I went to the link shown in the post from (http://www.croster.co.jp/en/history.html); I found some highly interesting material that was not related to Chouinard Dragons or to packs!
The website writes that Croster invented "the World's first dome tent," and gives a date of 1959.
I wonder if any of you wish to comment on this claim?
I'd read that the U.S.-made "POP TENT" had been designed in 1955 by none other than Bill Moss (the official Moss website says this). The Pop Tent certainly looks like a "dome tent" to me.
The Pop Tent was sold by one of those older, traditional companies, I think Thermos. See the picture I've included.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Feb 10, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
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I dug out my Chouinard catalogs for some "time-line" research on Supergators.
There are several versions of each of the Chouinard catalogs published between 1972 & 1980.
Supergators show up in the price list of what may be the latest version of the famous 1972 catalog. They are not described or pictured. I will guess it is a 1974 version, since it is stamped with the address Northwestern Mountain Sports moved to in summer 1974.
Supergators summer: $37.00
Supergators winter: $40.00
Can't locate my pair from that era, but I believe they did not have zippers. I added a front zip to mine. I don't think the logo (if any) was the Supergator logo shown in this thread.
By what is considered the 1975 Chouinard/Great Pacific Iron Works catalog, with cover shot of Machapuchare: Super Gators get their own page, and have a zipper in the back. The price has also gone down to $29.50.
Here's a 1976 photo of my modified Supergators on our Mt. Deborah trip.
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oldgear
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2012 - 11:31am PT
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I notice the 1975 catalog does not mention colors. I see your pair loaded with gorgeous colors: are they "stock" colors, or did you modify them to achieve those great colors?
Thanks so much for adding such interesting material about the Supergators!
Leading me to my final thought: are the Supergators in the "Best Ever" category of gear, or is there something better that has been developed since the Supergator?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Feb 17, 2012 - 11:54am PT
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Old Gear: I think those were supplied colors. Only the black over-flap that covers the zipper was added. RDB may have more memories, but I recall that some Spokane-based sewer added the zippers to Supergators for what seemed like a bargain price.
In this photo in front of Cliff Hudson's plane: we all have the modified Supergators in bright colors.
Supergators were a hot idea at the time and later. I was leafing through a late 1980's issue of Climbing yesterday and was impressed by all the ads for similar, but improved versions.
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Feb 17, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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Newest version of our 1976 Supergators? This one will be in stores by April. We haven't really gone that far in the last 35 years ;) Took them 6 years to get back to velcro over the zipper and I still think the snaps are a good idea :) But still the same basic technology.
Zipper in the back was a big let down. Wild colors which I liked.
More pics of the original, Peter Carmen "Super Gator" and the logo here:
http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/04/la-sportivas-batura.html
I'll disagree with Fritz here though. I never saw an improved version, Carman or other wise. Often copied but never improved past what we took to Deborah in '76.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Feb 17, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
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Re RDB's thoughts: I'll disagree with Fritz here though. I never saw an improved version, Carman or other wise. Often copied but never improved past what we took to Deborah in '76.
OK, OK. You likely have a point. I've never played with any of the "improved Supergator" designs, and you likely have.
I just fell into the hype that a product ripped-off from the original design and offered up 15-20 years later must be improved.
We old-farts know that is not always true.
Now what the hell did I do with my old Supergators?? I know I would not have thrown them away. I want to see if they have the small labels RDB shows.
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Feb 17, 2012 - 09:43pm PT
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Just bustin on a Fritz :) Funny now, but I had cursed my Haderers and those over stuffed Gators more than once betwen 1975 and to 1981 when I switched Koflachs. They had weighted a lot. But I'd pay a pretty penny for either now. Gave the boots along with a pair of Trappeurs to Paul Fish for his rental fleet before '85. Stupid on my part, really stupid.
I'd added a layer of pile to my super gators and even on a couple of unplanned bivies high up in the Icefields, mid winter, never had a cold injury or even cold feet in that set up.
Not a pair of singles (with a built in super gator) being made today that you could say the same I suspect. And it is a hell of a LOT warmer these days!
Where is that 1000 yard stare of Puchner's on Sally? That was a cold night to climb through and he was in doubles and Super Gators!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Feb 17, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
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OK RDB!
Here's the Puch photo.
It was after a long-night up the north-side of the north-spur peak of Deborah (Sally).
I kept waiting for the (and really not wanting) the 12 -18 inches of sugar snow we were climbing on, to separate from its hard water ice base.
I don't think we were a "pretty-picture" on the climb. RDB led some pretty rocky & runout ice-coated schist near the top.
Puch was well into hypothermia, by the time we started hacking bivy ledges out of the ice.
All was well by the next morning.
However! We all had Supergator warm-feet!
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OR
Trad climber
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Feb 26, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
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Forrest Mountaineering Yes! I have one of his Pin Racks and a nylon belay seat. This thread made me go digging for my old Chouinard rucksack that I was sure was lost. Found It. Very cool. From early 80's . Still bomber.
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oldgear
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
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Bill Forrest is alive and well, and occasionally still doing things for Cascade Designs, especially in relation to MSR brand snowshoes. He even wrote a nice little how-to book about snowshoeing for them, can't remember the date, but within the past ten years.
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oldgear
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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I recently picked up a mint pair of Supergators in two shades of blue (exterior) and green taffeta interior. They don't have any reference to Carman on them, only a very small "Chouinard" label on the exterior. There is an access point in the green lining to add insulation. There is a front zipper and the flap has snaps....The size is "28" whatever that means. All I know, is that they don't fit me! Too small.
I imagine they fit a men's 8-9 the best. Anyone want to buy these, now that I've finished photographing them for my History of Gear work?
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tom Carter
Social climber
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Apr 23, 2012 - 11:55am PT
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Any truth in this.....
Wasn't Peter Carman married to Dorthy Hirshland ?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:11pm PT
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That is a good question Tommy lad and to the best of my knowledge there was so much Electric Kool-Aid consumption in Wilson during that era that you will get any number of answers. PC can answer that one! BJ, Foott and Jesson were part of the clan in wild era.
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oldgear
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
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Look what's on eBay right now, being sold as a genuine Chouinard pack.
Looks like another version of a "Dragon" pack made in Japan. Anyone know anything about these "Almski" packs? Feel free to bid on it, I sure don't need another pack, but for history-building about this Dragon label, I'd sure like to know whatever you may know.
[photoid=246525]
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oldgear
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
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and this is on the junction of the shoulder straps:
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Vesta
Trad climber
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Aug 13, 2013 - 10:04am PT
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I'm researching an old backpack that my husband has had for years and I saw your post. Did you ever learn anything about the Chouinard CH-110 Almski pack you saw on eBay? This one is dirty but otherwise it's in great condition and has the two detachable side bags. I'm trying to figure out what it is and what to do with it.
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