Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
|
I'll confess to mixed feelings about the chopping, however.
Understood. Tough call. Doubt that replacing the chopped bolts will be high on anybody's to-do list. But calling out Hayden and Jason for probably not filling chopped bolt holes strikes me as silly.
But that's just me.
Cheers all,
g
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
|
amazing ascent. and tx to the rolo for the post.
one of the most famous undones on on of the most famous peaks in the world in an area that's had a lot of visitation from really good teams.
i don't much care about the bolt holes-- this isn't el cap. high alpine environment, the tiny quantity of granite displaced by those studs is a fraction of what weathers off each year.
i understand randy's qualms about the route itself, though. in a weird way, it had become a sort of historic landscape. we don't line up to chop WW1 via ferrata in the Dolomites.
on the other hand, this is THE route that was in some ways the pinnacle of the mauerhakenstreit of the early 20th century and the bolt wars that followed. it seems to have been the immediate inspiration for messner's "murder of the impossible" exercise, and it was one of the major examples in the siege/alpine debates that i grew up with. the chop is in keeping with the seventies retro of the ascent.
the chop certainly changes the game-- no one is going to casually clip up that old tat in order to engineer a top-down free ascent. of course, that raises still more questions.
|
|
Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
|
Now it's been decompressed.
|
|
Gregory Crouch
Social climber
Walnut Creek, California
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
|
Here are some of my initial thoughts... and I'd also like to point out that I'm not upset, nor taking sides in this... I haven't been active in Patagonia in a decade, and Rolo, for one, is a friend I much admire and respect...
I just posted 'em here...http://gregcrouch.com/2012/the-compressor-route-chopped
Here's the nut of it: I confess to having mixed feelings about the chopping. I’m sure I can get used to the idea, and the mountain is certainly closer to its original state than it was a few days ago, but on the other hand, it’s the end of an incredible story, and I think “the story” might be the thing I like most about climbing — whether mine or someone else’s.
Standing on top of Maestri’s Compressor is the most bizarre thing I’ve ever experienced, and I’m a little saddened that opportunity isn’t in the world any longer.
(I’m actually fool enough to have been there twice.)
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
|
Rolo
You've had so much to do with this--it's incredible to hear
that it is now 'decompressed'!!!!
|
|
johngenx
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
|
Superb work. All of it.
|
|
shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
|
that's fukin bullshite that they chopped the compressor route. i can just envision expeditions arriving now, intent on the compressor, only to get their dreams dished by these radical purist. i'm really dissapointed at whoever talked hayden and partner into this desecration. i don't give a fuk about what and how they climbed it, they fuked a historical route that was put up way before they were born. kids have no clue.
to hayden, i hope these are the last bolts that you will ever chop.
you been to patagonia and argentina like what, 2 or 3 times? steve schneider
|
|
rolo
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2012 - 11:18pm PT
|
Nobody talked Jason and Hayden into it. To think that is to question two truly independent and visionary minds. I for one did not know until after the fact.
Regarding Greg's point, the story is still very much there. That will never go away. The story just got better.
|
|
shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
|
the story got BIGGER, not neccesarily better. ss
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
|
...and they used bolts on their ascent....hmmmm, but those are fine. Maybe those were American bolts whereas the others were Italian. That would explain why they only chopped some. I'm sure all Americans agree that would be fine then.We presume they used some of Maestri's belays but in pitches only clipped 5 bolts, four placed by Ermanno Salvaterra on his 1999 variation and one placed by Chris Geisler on his and Jason's variations last season.
Rolo, are you teasing us here? Perhaps it should have been left to the locals. What is next, a rappel chop job of Hardings bolt line on El Cap?
In either case, bolt discussions are like farts in the wind, they stink but briefly and are of truly little importance. Although sometimes they are loud, and can leave some sh#t behind after they blow away.
|
|
TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:31pm PT
|
The drama is beyond the pale.
|
|
gmmcdoug
Mountain climber
Calgary AB
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
|
I am severely sad and dissapointed in the selfish acts of the "superstars". This was a historic route. To those climbing 5.12 it may have just been a via ferrata. But at the same time Rolo, were you able to climb the compressor route free? Why should a historical route that is so surrounded by controversy be removed, because of one side of the story? It is no different from you imposing your values on anyone. Sounds sort of like a dictatorship don't you think? Deciding what is best for everyone?
Class would have been climbing the route, showing it could be done, and then leaving it for others to decide. Not arbitrarily chopping a piece of climbing history (even if it was lies and ethically challenged). There is a certain example set by being the bigger person. What these two did was no different than what Maestri did by chopping the last rock pitch of the climb. They are in exactly the same category. They were saying I did it, and only I can do it. Same statement as Maestri was making.
Aren't climbing routes the property of the community? For mere mortals it was history.
It was a route that should have never been established in the first place but it was. Chopping the route was a disservice to those who have climbed it before and the first real ascent of it by Bridwell.
Again who are you to play the ethical police to anyone? I climb what what I climb because I enjoy it. The best climber is the one having the most fun. So again I ask, what gave them the right to be Team America (or Canada) World Police (F*#k Yeah)
The Fair means ascent by world standards is far less of a contribution than that of curing cancer, at the end it shows us to dream but it is also it the masturbation of the ego for the climbers, further stoking their own egos by taking something away from others.
I believe in climbing ethics, but I believe in freedom of choice and not imposing my views on anyone. I have read the controversy about the peak and it fascinated me. I will no longer have the right to go and climb the route and make my own judgements about it. The accomplishment of these climbers is fantastic but they had no right to remove it.
Sincerely
Greg
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
|
so when is someone going to chop all those additional bolts on elcap? is it not the same thing but on a different scale? should we applaud the team that removes all the extra bolts on the salathe?
|
|
gmmcdoug
Mountain climber
Calgary AB
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:41pm PT
|
F*ckin chop them all. After all the guys who climbed it before couldn't climb for shitte since they had to place bolts.
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
|
Did something similar to the East Face of Washington Column morphing into Astroman just happen?
g
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
|
Once we have Jason's and Hayden's own report on their climb and what they did, we'll have more to discuss. They're both widely experienced and well rooted climbers, and I'd like to hear what they have to say.
|
|
shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
|
i think gmmcdoug makes some great points that i am too pissed to try and make. yeah, a whole slew of people are denied this route, at least until it gets put back up again. that's right, big fuking bolt war coming up.
i hear the superstars were last seen having a conversation with
the police in el chalten. i won't speculate about what. ss
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
|
They are in exactly the same category. They were saying I did it, and only I can do it. Same statement as Maestri was making.
Except that Maestri didn't climb it.
Probably.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:48pm PT
|
The imposition was Maestri's not Kruk & Kennedy. Good on them for cleaning up an historic disgrace.
Now you are free to go impose your will on it.
Remember history is watching.
|
|
gmmcdoug
Mountain climber
Calgary AB
|
|
|
Jan 19, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
|
True, then I guess Bridwell didn't either... or Greg or anyone else who climbed it.
Point is, it has been climbed once, the Compressor was a historical route. Pure and simply, I feel I am smart enough to make up my own mind about the merits of the route. But I don't appreciate the hypocrisy of chopping the route.
I do not support the route or the establishment but this goes to the point of someone dictating to me what I climb.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!