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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
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Chile has the best health care in Latin America, it's also costs a fraction of what you pay in the US. I came down with a painfull tooth infection yesterday. The trip to the dentist set me back $9, xray included. Friends of mine from Colorado paid a whopping $140 each in Santiago for colonoscopys. The medical care is also pretty high quality. Makes you wonder.
This must be wrong because I've been taught the US is the best country in the world and we also have the best healthcare so let's not questions the big insurance corporations that rule our lives or we'll lose our choice of in-network providers and get some evil alternative where do don't do hundreds of dollars in tests to cover their asses
Commie!
karl
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:03pm PT
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The US has by a large difference, the most expensive health care in the world. And it's increasing faster than any other developed country.
Yet we are very far below the top in life expectancy, very near the top in infant mortality, death rate while in hospitals. etc
I won't bore the peanut gallery with the actual statistics (this time). Look them up yourself.
And we're the ONLY modern industrialized country without "socialized medicine" in one form or another. Draw your own conclusions.
OK, I can't resist three factoids
We spend 50% MORE per capita on health care (15.7%) than France (11%). They're #2.
In close order behind, all about 10% are Switz. Germany, Austria, Canada, Portugal, Denmark.......
Our life expectancy is #29 at 79.9 years. The top 10: Japan 83.7, Hong Kong 82.8, Switz 82.5, Iceland 82.3, Australia 82.2, France 81.9, Italy 81.6, Spain 81.6, Sweden 81.6
Infant mortality, we don't even make it in the lowest 40!
Iceland 2.8/1000 live births, Sweden 2.9, Singapore 3, Finland 3.1, Japan 3.1, Norway 3.3, Czech Republic 3.6, Hong Kong 3.6, Slovenia 3.6, Greece 3.7, France 3.8, Italy 3.8, Spain 3.8, Switz 3.9...........United Kingdom #32 4.9......Canada #36 5.0......US #46 6.3
We have 2X the infant mortality of "socialist" Sweden.
Family Values?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
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from the link above. Refutation of the GOP line about how Lawyers cause all the health care expenses
Lawyers. Malpractice-insurance premiums and liability awards account for less than 2 percent of overall health-care spending, according to a 2004 study by the Congressional Budget Office. Defensive medicine, the practice of ordering extra tests or procedures to protect against lawsuits, might add another few percentage points, according to some estimates.
Yet 60 percent of respondents blamed lawyers for high costs, and 69 percent specifically pointed to "frivolous lawsuits."
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
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My own foreign health care anecdote.
Had a tooth disintegrate while on a long term sailing voyage. In Puerto Vallarta I found a dentist recommended by other yachties. He made the crown in his lab right there in the office. Cost me $200 (1990). When I got back home, went to see my dentist who was very particular about his quality. Asked him how my new crown was. Just fine. As good as he could have done. For about $1000 (1990)
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:14pm PT
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American health care is UnAmerican.
Because it is not health care at all. That would imply caring for the HEALTH of people.
That would entail caring that healthy citizens are happier more productive citizens.
NO, in this country we have a system unfortunately built on the same corrupt foundation as the American corporate model. We have Ill Care in this country. We care for the ill as long as we can milk them for profit. Curing patients is not in the best interest of the business model. Keeping people healthy is not the mission statement. What we already have is Socialized profiteering. What we need is national HEALTH care.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
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You get your national healthcare when you turn 65.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:24pm PT
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Thanks HighTraverse for your informed comments just above. Obviously the US cost structure of medical care is not sustainable. I do wonder with others here, how the hell it will resolve in the future.
My total knee replacement cost $158,000 last month...and I was only in for 3.5 days. My heart ablation will be over $100K in February. Since I am insured in a college faculty group at Blue Shield, my copay was $500. That was all. But all of this just doesn't make sense and as I say, is not sustainable, nor is it ethical or moral; the lion's share of Americans would not have these measures available to them currently, should they need them, only because they could not field the insurance. And all this reminding us of our puritan roots and that 'money is God's report card'.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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Kevin, did you get bitten by a rabid skunk?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:46pm PT
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the rest of the hospital looked like a nightmare/warzone though Greece has significantly lower infant mortality than the US.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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Chile cuts overhead costs by not wiping the "Steel Eel" between tests. It can add up.....
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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Exactly Fats, people in Chili can afford health care.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
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Speaking of La Paz
Later on the same sailing voyage, my wife got a severe intestinal bug. Went to a clinic in Lareto. Didn't give her a prescription till they'd done the lab work. By the way, she didn't have to see a doctor! The nurses/lab knew exactly what to do. The Docs weren't wasting their time where they weren't needed.
So the next day she gets her bug-specific prescription (Ciprofloxacin) filled. About $20 (1990) for both. They recommend she get another lab test in 2 weeks. 2 weeks later, in La Paz, she gets another blood test. Now negative. $20. All done, end of story.
In 1990 Lareto was a pretty small dusty town, yet she got excellent care. Try getting a prescription in the US without seeing an MD yet how many times has your Doc given you a prescription without appropriate tests?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 13, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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You get your national healthcare when you turn 65.
Not for long if the GOP had it's way
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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that has no correlation to medicine in the US Precisely. Among developed countries the US is by far the most expensive yet has very poor results. We stand alone in our medical incompetence and political idiocy.
By the way, the US signed the UN Declaration of Human Rights in 1948
Among those universal human rights:
Article 25
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
I won't bore you with the half dozen or so other articles the US ignores.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Declaration_of_Universal_Human_Rights
Ask your favorite Presidential candidate what he/she will do to come into full compliance.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 13, 2011 - 02:07pm PT
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Without lawsuits our costs would plummet. BULLSH#T
If you actually believe this, you are less informed and intelligent than I've been giving you credit for.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 13, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Jim...nice being in a civilized country.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 13, 2011 - 02:13pm PT
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HT,
In my wife's field of OB liability is a huge issue. If you don't think so
then you are sadly misinformed. Parents will sue you if the little monster
comes out with the wrong color hair.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 13, 2011 - 03:22pm PT
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Silver,
don't call donini insane. He bowls overhand.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 13, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
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Medical care in the USA is quite inexpensive.. if you are a mammal other than homo-sapiens.
It's not that complicated really..Americans are stupid..
We seem to enjoy getting raped up the a*# by every single middle step involved in our healthcare.
We have allowed big pharma and insurance to intentionally OVERREGULATE a ton of stuff.
Ask yourself how vets can treat the exact same conditions for a fraction of the cost?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 13, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
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perhaps that how we got here to some degree but I bet if you made it impossible to sue a doctor .. prices would go up next year.
These folks have us by the nads and they know it.
It's not a consumer driven market.. it's been VERY CAREFULLY insulated from competitive pricing
yeah whatever.. Chemo for dogs costs on average less then 10% by volume what the exact same drugs for humans cost. I'm not talking the patients cost but the vet/doctors price. Guaranteed the pharma company is making a profit on the vet at 10% too.
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