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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
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Universities are being targeted??
WTF?!?!?
Universities provide a safe place for students to demonstrate. Universities encourage free speech. Well, obviously not so much now....unless you're not on the "wrong side."
It's really disturbing to hear people who blame the victims. I wonder if white people blamed the violence against blacks simply due to their skin color??
Yet today, we praise people like Rosa Parks and MLK for their courageous acts of civil disobedience.
If the violence committed by the police continues, sh#t is going to get REAL.
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Kevmn
Gym climber
Snob Franpsycho
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
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Wow, I figured climbers would have a better sense too see through all the media fact twisting and moulding of events to suit a particular agenda.
I read through all that crap and that's not what happened. These media sources are playing you sparking your anger and outrage. Free speech is a wonderful thing and needs to be protected and exercised or course. But what these news sources are doing is not free speech. They are purposefully manipulating the truth and reporting on false "facts" to push people in a certain direction.
As a credible news source, they should have to check their sources with "facts" that can be backed up. The media needs to be held accountable for running false information like this.
Here's the facts as I was present for much of this ridiculousness and some friends of mine were so close to the action, they caught a little pepper in the breeze.
These protesters were asked to remove their little shanty tent town three days prior to this incident. They had THREE days to comply. They were not asked to stop protesting. Only to relocate their protests to a more appropriate area where another large group was already set up. Where they were was an area that was highly disruptive to students.
Most of the Davis students packed up and left but some protesters (sitters) from outside the campus decided they would come in and resist.
The campus police showed up and asked the group to disperse and remove the tent city or they would be forced to do so. The police talked to the protesters and tried to persuade them to move peacefully. Officials from the school who support their cause came out and asked that they relocate peacefully. Protest organizers even suggested that it would be best if they moved. This all went on for three hours at a great expense to the already financially strapped school.
A dozen or so students had packed up and left but a group of mostly non students intent on resisting any authority for any reason locked arms and sat there shouting at the campus police.
This went on for hours while the police pleaded for them to just move. At one point I saw several officers trying to physically break up the group by prying their arms apart. The protesters were spitting kicking and elbowing the police in defiance. I saw this with my own eyes.
Instead of beating the sh#t out of them with batons to break them up, the police backed off and spent another hour deciding what they were going to do. At that point I got bored and left but apparently what happened was the police got permission to deploy pepper spray in an attempt to avoid physically breaking up the group.
Now remember, these protesters "were" breaking the law because they were on private property and asked to relocate. Several of the protesters were also guilty of battery on an officer for spitting and kicking the officers.
The police once again pleaded with the protesters and told them what they were about to do. They gave them ten minutes to reconsider. At that point the officers pushed the crowd back to a safe distance, pleaded once again then gave them several quick, light blasts of pepper. They did not hose them down as one report stated.
Shortly after the pepper was deployed, the group peacefully broke up. Police ushered them over to an area they had set up where they had wash stations with running water, towels and medical personnel on hand.
That's exactly what happened, no bullsh#t, no buttering the facts.
Now tell me, what the hell were the police supposed to do?
They were disrupting students in class, blocking walkways and needed to be removed.
Most of the students I saw were pretty upset with this particular group, and almost everyone is an occupy supporter.
What should the police have done and still be able to maintain order?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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Americans are stupid and then they're even stupider when they see cops.
In more harsher countries you'll just get beaten harder or shot.
Cops are programmed to act a certain way according to time and circumstance.
Idiots expect them to act their way.
Idiots then get beaten and complain. Hahaha
When you protest and stand in their way you better be ready to take their stick or else fight back.
Instead you get nothing but whinny bitches .....
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:46pm PT
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OK joe can you update us on the status of our efforts to smear OWS?
Yes sir! We have procured at great expense videos that portray the opposition as racist, anti-semites.
We have managed to single out of over 100,00 individuals a couple of sexual predators.
Being that approx 10% of the general population uses marijuana regularly it has been substantially easier to paint them as drug users.
The whisper campaigns of course do not need any actual examples just a few national mouthpeices like FOX News and such.
We are making headway Mein Fuhrer
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
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Disturbing the peace includes such actions as fighting in public, disturbing
another with loud unreasonable noise, or using offensive words in public
which are likely to provoke a violent reaction.
See: California Laws – Disturbing the Peace (California Penal Code Section 415)
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it...
well, he gets it.
I don't like it any more than you men.
(The Captain from Cool Hand Luke)
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:51pm PT
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Fat, are you seriously saying that the next logical step would be hitting peaceful protestors, like the ones at UC Davis, with fists, flashlights and night sticks? I know that you often play the role of a troll and promote extreme views under the guise of your online persona, but do you seriously see the implementation of that type of force (pepper spray, hitting with fists, night sticks) as bing appropriate?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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Did you hear the breaking news story?
Herman Cain is a cannibal who prefers the taste of white boy flesh?
And NuttyYahoo is a secret Muslim bent on destroying Israel.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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Nov 20 1945 the Nuremburg trials started???
Ok Skipt.. I'll admit you lost me completely here.
That being the case I can only admit utter defeat and say i have no clue what you are talking about.
Care to elaborate so I might understand?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 20, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
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Newt Gingrich had a semi-successful sex change operation.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Skipper, they are protesting a great wrong in this country. Just because the goon squad of the ruling elite says move along does not delegitimize their protest or make them criminals. Speaking truth to power, whether on Wall Street or at the Berlin Wall is never easy.
Based on your undying support for the current power structure I would have to assume you felt that the Germans who tore down the wall were dangerous criminals and the Poles who stood up to the Soviet Union and brought it to it's knees were really dirty hippie communist criminals.
Wake up Dipt, these folks you so blindly condemn are the true patriots!
Is it the opposition to Roveian dogma that upsets you or is it just intelligence that frightens you?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:12pm PT
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A reasonable conversation eh?
Fair enough. I am of the opinion that overall the OWS has an overwhelming priortized right for their actions on public ground. That by the highest law of the land they are defacto following the law as long as they merely occupy chant hold signs set up tents, sleep, feed themselves and so on.
On private property this is not necessarily the case.
UC Davis is a publicly financed institution and is in a grey are somewhat. At the very least a prominent and effective area should be allocated for the protest and camp if so desired.
Perhaps these protesters crossed a reasonable line. However the police certainly could have done a much better job removing them.
Overall however this just appears to be more of the very unconstitutional actions of various authorities nationwide at ending a valid protest.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
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FIGHT BACK!
Goggles, helmets and a couple of layers of neoprene clothing to defeat the coward's tasers. This is OUR country not Wall Street's.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
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Idiots expect them to act their way.
Idiots then get beaten and complain. Hahaha
When you protest and stand in their way you better be ready to take their stick or else fight back.
Instead you get nothing but whinny bitches .....
werner, the folks in this slice of ows who actually are tacticians are hoping to provoke police violence-- that's the point of this slice of the protests. (no, this doesn't include all or necessarily even a majority of the protesters, most of whom don't think tactically let alone strategically or the various folks in the commentariet.)
the point is to provoke police violence which in turn forces the audience to take a position, for or against, thus dividing and polarizing. the theory is that polarization will generate sympathy for the protestors.
that theory didn't work well in 1968, but it seems to have a life of its own.
the weird thing is that such a huge chunk of those involved in the protests and many of those watching/commenting seem to be remarkably unaware of the tactical and strategic point to pushing confrontation over tents.
instead we get a lot of ignorant ranting about totalitarianism or weird sideways conspiracy stuff. the sort of sideshow of this thread is exactly why i was not in favor of ows moving onto college campuses. it invites all kinds of semi-psychotic babbling that then gets attached to universities, and especially public research universities, at the precise moment in which the very idea of a public research university is in trouble.
just a trainwreck.
but yeah, the most self-aware of the protestors who got hit or sprayed were hoping for precisely that outcome.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
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The usual ST morons mouth off! No surprise there.
But, I am disappointed in fattrad who I thought was educated in the ways of the law and law enforcement. Use of pepper spray is "limited to controlling hostile or violent subjects". This was taken up in one of the tree hugger cases in which non-violent protestors had pepper spray applied to their forced-open eyes. I'm sure you looked at those videos from Davis. Whether you think the protestors are the highest form of patriot or dumb misguided spoiled rich kids, I think you would have to agree that they were completely passive and did not present a hostile or violent threat.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1332957.html
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Ahwahnee Bartender
Big Wall climber
Fog Town
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
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I like the police and the job that they are doing. F*#k you guys. More pepper spray in the face of all you ass holes. God willing.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
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OK so you have pointed out that some Neo-Nazi group thinks they will have a chance to benefit from the OWS movement.
LOL They are as always a deluded bunch of folks.
--------------
Regardless how the general public feels about OWS (and I too have some disagreements with it) The Constitution clearly supports their general efforts.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
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The 1% is not petitioning for redress of grievances.. the only form of assembly and freedom of speech specifically described as protected in the First Amendment.
SO this suggests that what OWS is doing is especially protected and supported by the Founders.
One might easily argue that the founders specifically felt that this type of action is of the highest priority when there are conflicts between competing freedoms of expression.
Infact they made it protected from any law that might abridge this right.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:30pm PT
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The Chancellor Katehi had the balls to walk out there in front of the students and everyone last night so she gets my kudos.
I hope she doesn't get fired. People are allowed to make mistakes.
She didn't know the cops were gonna do what they did.
The poser English professor is way homo.
Some Gandhi poser all while supporting violent industrialized slaughterhouses.
He's probably eating a burger right now.
Americans are so stupid .....
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:36pm PT
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OK I retract the Goebles and other Nazi comparisons. But I substitute and double down on general totalitarianism.
Actually i will continue with the Goebbels comparison but in his capacity as a master and pioneer of modern propaganda. Not his specific political allegiances.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 20, 2011 - 02:42pm PT
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Those of you condemning the OWS protesters who are exercising their constitutional rights would surely have like wise opposed the brave patriots fighting against slavery or for women's suffrage or against the proliferation of nuclear weapons. History has repeatedly proven your side wrong. It will do so again. Your Rove/Limbaugh approved NON-sense about protesters being violent is in stark opposition to reality. As has become common the COPS are provoking and instigating the violence.
Sieg Heil you un-American bastards!
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